Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here's one for you guys who successfully distinguished the mugitus from melanoleucus in the recent posts ... this is one of my babies from this year ... what do you think ...mugitus or melanoleucus? (it could be a trick question).

SteveB

here's his head ... a better picture than the last.
SteveB

Well that is a tough one. The northern pine typically has more defined saddles anteriorly an facial markings while the southern pine typically has a more washed out or muted look in the posterior region with regards to saddle and ground colors. There is a relatively broad band of intergration between these two groups in the wild but I doubt that you would encounter these kinds of distinct shared characteristics. giving you a kind of 1/2 and 1/2 look. There is enough overlap in scale and saddle counts between the two ssp. so that can not be used. I really feel that it could be argued either way but since you planted the "trick question" seed in my head I will guess that you have an unusual looking nominant form...Northern Pine! That snake lacks the "pastle look" that I assocciate with mugitus.

Nice post thanks! Ginter

That looks like a S. Pine to me. Like Norhtern Pines they vary alot throughout their range. As John noted their is a wide zone of intergradation, S.C. pines vary alot even from the same area and it would be difficult to say they are either Norhteerns or Southerns.In fact here in NC there is a lot of variation. I seen NC pines that go from the classic black and white to almost bullsnake in appearance with browns and yellows and I have preserved an animal from the coast that is almost all black. My pic is one from Ocala parents, and this guy is fairly boldy patterned and out of the same clutch I'll get some with a more classic S. Pine look with a more washed out appearance. Not a good pic I'll try to get one of their mother soon.

---Scott

n/p

.

and say it looks like an 'overly defined' southern to me. lol! it's a pretty weird looking animal in any case.......

will be interesting to see what it looks like when mature.

n/t

Add a little more pattern to it and it looks almost exactly like some of the naturally occurring mugitusXlodingi that I've seen. I'd still stick with an intergrade between mugitusXmelanoleucus as my first guess, though. I'd bet a 1.333333 cents that that is what you have in that photo.

Don't you work with the intergrades from that SC town that sounds like a Texan trying to say "acorn," too?

KJ

P.S.> BUT, my REAL guess would be a chondro. It is definitely a chondro. No doubt about it. Chondro. Yep.

OK it was a case of double "trickeration", to quote Bobby Bowden. A couple of you got the first part ... this guy, and his brothers were born to a pair of natural "intergrades" from Acorn ... I mean Aiken County, SC. The second part of the trickeration is that the dad is a natural hypomelanistic. I"ll post pics of both mom and dad tomorrow from work.

Steve.........I wasn't going to wade in on this guessing game, as I have seen the pics of your Aiken County pines. They are nice looking animals.