Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi. I have heard that letting a beardie bask through window glass (indoors) or something similar on a bright day, it would be the same as using a top brand reptile UV bulb.

Is this true?

Most glass blocks out 99.9% of the sun's UVB rays.

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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

n/p
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Chris

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Technically speaking, i believe so. Ofcourse it depends on thickness, tint, distance from points, etc.

Ive read that glass blocks all but 7-8% of UV rays.

How much do "reptile-brand" Uv bulbs release? 7-8%?

Again, several factors depend on how much light will actually pass through.

M.N

sorry, i meant:

"How much do "reptile-brand" Uv bulbs release? 2-8%?"

M.N

Sorry but you are incorrect. It does not depend on how much light will pass through as it has nothing to do with light. The poster is asking about UV rays and you CAN NOT see UV rays. There are actually three different levels of UV rays based on its wavelengths. There is UVA, UVB, and UVC. The dragons require UVA and UVB. All three can have a marked effect on chemical and biological processes.

The shortest UV radiation waves those less than 280 nanometers from the sun are referred to as UVC, and are absorbed by the ozone in our atompshere and do not normally penetrate to the surface of the earth. Artifically lights that produce UVC are mainly used for sterilizing water. All UV light is relatively easily deflected or absorbed by glass. Bearded Dragons do not need UVC.

The next range of radiation waves is called UVB and is generally emitted in wavelengths between 280 nanometers to 320 nanometers, while UVA is between 320 -400 nanometers. As far as vitamin D3 absorption (which is essential) UVB wavelengths in the range of 290 -300 nanometers are generally thought to be most effective and as being responsible for 60% of all absorption by the body of D3. What UVB of the correct wavelength actually does is penetrate into the skin and and circulates through the various systems in the body to enable the body to utilize the vitamin D3 and aid in calcium absorption.

UVA light is produced in much larger quantities in reptile lighting than UVB. UVA is important for the normal behavior of many reptiles as this is light that many of them can actually see even though we cannot. It can be important for their reproductive and other behavioral needs. Many lizards can determine the sex of each other by using UVA light. Appetite can also be stimulated in many reptiles following exposure to significant amounts of UVA light.

So in short UVA and UVB are essential requirements in the needs of your bearded dragons. Most basking lights (the bulbs that cost around $5.00-8.00) DO NOT have any UVB in them at all. Just read the packages. They say on the box and lead you to believe they provide all the basking needs of your reptiles but look further on the packaging and you will see that it never mentions that the bulbs have any UVB in them. You must get UVB from either a flourescent UVB producing light fixture (and these in my opinion don't provide enough UVB for producing a truly exceptional, extremely healthy and overall superior in appearances and color bearded dragon) or from the Mercury Vapor style bulbs that produce the greatest amounts of UVB of any other lighting on the market. Be sure to read the details concerning the UVB output on the various bulbs that claim to produce UVB as there is a wide range of differences among the different brands and some claim to be a all in one complete deal providing UVA and UVB but when you read the fine print they aren't producing enough UVB. This is generally the case in some of the off brands that are beginning to appear in the market now.

The best thing anyone can do for their bearded dragons is to get educated on the subject and question every product you consider buying to see if it meets a set of high standards you must set.

Sorry for the long speech on the subject but I just felt this information was needed and it would help a lot of people.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

"What UVB of the correct wavelength actually does is penetrate into the skin and and
circulates through the various systems in the body to enable the body to utilize the vitamin D3 and aid
in calcium absorption. "
This is a false statement...UV does not circulate in the body...all uvb light does is cause a chemical reaction in the skin that makes a compound in the skin become a more active form of vit. d. Thic more active form is then further converted in the body to d3. Your dragon can get all the d3 it needs from dietary means without the use of uvb lighting.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

Yes you are correct but I did not want to get to in depth and to scientific for people to understand since my post was already bordering on the extreme in defining the processes.

What the UVB actually does is The UVB wavelengths penetrates the skin (an oragn in itself) and has a actinic effect on things such as sterols, cholesterol, circulating in the blood capillaries just beneath the skin. This product is chemically changed by this just beneath the skin. This product is chemically changed by this photo-biosynthesis into pre-vitamn D3 which then becomes vitamin D3 by a temperature dependant chemical reaction called thermal isomerization. This product is transported by blood plasma proteins to the liver and kidneys for both long-term storage and further conversion to several other active forms of the vitamin. It is the multiplicity of active forms that has led many scientist to think of vitamin D3 more as a horomone rather than just a vitamin. This storage of vitamin 3e in the liver is why reptiles that feed on whole vertebrate prey such as rodents do not require extra D3 in their diet or exposure to UVB light. Their total vitamin D3 requirement comes from the liver of their prey. But it is insectivorous (instect only eating), herbivirous (plant only eating) and omnivorous (both plant, insect and meat eaters) reptile species that require either dietary vitamin D3 or exposure to UVB light in a captive environment.

So you can see from this explaination of the process why I took the less mind boggling of the approach to explain and just said it moves throughout the system. Because the UVB causes certain chemical reactions to take place in varous other organs in the body to aid in things such as growth and digestion.

Hope this made it a little easier to understand.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

I'm impressed by your knowledge. I didn't need the expanded form, as I am well versed in the field of nutrition and metabolic processes. I think you may have helped and confused others though...lol. I was just trying to clarify that all the uvb does is trigger a cascade of reactions that ultimately end up in the formation of active d3. This same result can occur by dietary means, i.e. supplementing with a product that contains d3 already.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

my mistake...i did not mean "light"

M.N

That's OK. I do my share of mix ups to when my mind is thinking at one speed and my fingers are racing on at another speed. I just call it my "blonde moments". I even did it in one of my post listings last night Dec. 11 and had to go in and make a notation to the readers what my mistake was, I only caught it after I posted and was reading it a second time.

This has really been fun getting to know others on the forum and helping out those that need our advice and guidance.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

Glass blocks out 99.9% of UVB rays. A little more UVA can get through, but I don't know how much. The UVB is the beneficial ray so I'm guessing that's what you're referring to. I have a UVB meter and have measured it for myself. The UVB does not get through. A beardie basking behind a glass window will only get heat and some UVA - and a little scenery.

Veronica
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Beautiful Dragons

np

hey,

yeah the winddows tend to block out alomst 100% of UVB and most UVA beacuse its harmful to fabrics and having windows that block them protect ur inside furnishings......anyways i don't know bout u but i live in FL so i just open the window....there's a screan and let them sit on the sill.......

carbonatom13

The reason for blocking uv has a lot to do with heating/cooling really. uv coming through the window causes a build up of heat. as does escaping light. so windows are made to only allow visible light to pass. keeps you house warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

....

Not exactly correct. UVA and UVB can pass through glass windows but in a refracted state. That is what causes wood furniture to fade, carpets to fade, paint on the walls to dull etc. But, these UVA and UVB rays that pass through the glass are no where near enough to sustain life, such as what a bearded dragon needs for life.

That is why there are products on the market specifically designed to apply as a film to your home's windows that will aid in blocking out ALL of the UVA and UVB rays. It is just like the window tint people put on car windows but it is designed for homes and comes in various darknesses of tint and even mirrored. Mirrored is the most blocking of all the tints but is generally only used on commerical buildings, then you have several different shades from lighter to darker that can be put on windows to block the UV. But, the darker the tint to block UV the less light is allowed in the room so one must balance between how muc light they want versus how much of the UV rays they want to block out. The reason I know this is because I researched it and we had a professional company come to our home and put a UV blocking filter (film) on all of our windows. It helps to not only block out harmful UV rays that can damage furniture, carpets, window treatment fabrics, paint on walls and art on the walls but also to block out glare.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

I do not want to look it up right now. But what I was trying to say is that windows currently have an additive (I believe titanium oxide) that is added to the glass to reflect UV rays. True they do not reflect all of them but they do reflect something like over 99% (So use florida for example where the highest UVB output is 200 uW/cm/cm then the max that passes through a window is 2 uW/cm/cm) and I do believe it is higher than 99% maybe 99.9%. This additive was added to windows to block UV for heating and cooling reasons. My former boss and good friend's grandfather in law discovered it while working at harvard. Harvard didn't want the patent so he owns it. He made out very well because every glass company out there had to buy the patent rights or they wouldn't be able to sell the glass. True it doesn't block all UV but it does block the vast vast majority of it. You have to be weary of what people that work in an industry tell you. They don't always tell you the full truth as the full truth could hurt their bussiness and livelyhood.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

Ok. I am unfamiliar with how much affect titanium oxide present in glass can have on UV refraction and filtration. I only know just from research for our home on windows when we were building that to get a TRUE window designed specifically for blocking UV filtration argon gas is used between the panes and that these windows are very expensive and not used by most builders unless the customer specifically requests these types of windows or unless the builder is builing a true luxury homes and sparing nothing in costs. The titanium oxides may be something that was required for the mass produced glass windows that are used in 80% or so of all residential construction.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

I found an interesting article on what type of light will pass through glass. The website is http://www.medem.com/medlb/article_detaillb.cfm?article_ID=ZZZVWF5Y08C&sub_cat=113

It basically says that UVA can pass through glass and UVB cannot.

Veronica
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Beautiful Dragons

UVB is filtered almost completely by glass. It is my understanding UV lights use quartz to allow the UV through.

BTW a screen can cut out as much as half of the available UV.
for those really interested in the topic go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Meter_Owners/ and you will get more information than you ever imagined
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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

Actually everyone is right... It depends on how old your windows are. Older homes (not exactly sure how old,maybe 50 years)with original glass will let UV through,newer windows will not.
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Paul Morlock
of CaptiveCreations and
Retial Sales Rep. for Sandfire Dragon Ranch

Regular glass windows whether 100 years old or made this year, unless they have been specifically engineered to block UV, do not block any UV. Most houses that are built using builder grade double pane windows. The double pane is to allow an insulation factor or barrier to help keep the house insulated and warm air in the house in the winter and cooler air in during the summer as well as to aide in issues concerning condensation build up.

Windows that will block UV rays have been specifcally engineered to do so and are very expensive and usually only found in very expensive high end custom homes. These windows are designed with an argon gas that exists between the two panes as well as with the various tints I discussed in my other posts. The combination of window tints and argon gases aides in cutting down dramatically on how much UV can actually pass through the glass windows.

It has nothing to do with the age of the glass but instead the manufacturing of the glass windows and what kind of windows you have. Most people will have standard grade double pane windows so based on that most everyones windows will allow some amounts of UV to pass through.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

Typo error in my statement. In the second sentence I stated "do not block any UV" but it was suppose to read "do not black ALL UV" which is the basis of what was being discussed. SORRY FOR THE OOOPSS
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

No it is not the same thing. Windows/glass, whether in your house or other facility, do not allow the much needed UV rays to pass through in it's natural state. Some rays can pass through but not the full amount mother nature puts out. You must take your dragons to bath in the sun outdoors if you want to have your dragons using the "sun" from mother nature. They can suffer from metabolic bone disease if they do not receive proper amounts of UVA and plenty of UVB which most of your cheaper basking bulbs DO NOT HAVE. You will have to supplement your dragons enclosure with the highest amount of UVA and UVB you can find as bearded dragons do require a lot of UVB. We recommend and use on all of our own dragons the Mercury Vapor Bulbs you hear about called Active UV Heat bulbs. They are a large floodlight style bulb that srews into a standard electrical housing large deep well dome light fixture. We use the TREX brand and prefer it over others. The Mercury Vapor Bulbs by TRex comes with an excellent educational materials on their box and in their packaging concerning the UVB output of their Mercury Vapor Bulbs which is much higher than what you can get in a flourescent tube style bulb.

I hope this helps. But if you can't get 100% of mother nature's sun by basking outdoors don't rely on anything that comes through the windows, it isn't enough so you will need to supplement with artifical lighting and heat that mimics Mother Nature.

Hope this helps.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com