Reptile & Amphibian Forums

for those that have done it what do you do about the female eggs? I have two incubators and I don't want to transer the eggs I'd rather just move what the are in but then I'd have to me using small deli cups or something.
Xavier
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Leopard Geckos
1.1 Tangerine trempor albino
0.2 blizzards
1.1 Super Hypo Carrot tails (both Baldy)
1 amel corn snake

1.0.0 Common snapping turtle
0.1.0 Belize slider
0.1.0 Egyptian tortoise
0.0.1 blackknobbed sawback
0.0.1 stripeneck musk
0.0.1 nothern DBT

Hi Xavier,

Small deli cups work well for incubation, just fill them ½ full of the perlite water mixture, and tape up all but one air holes.

I would steer you away from using Tremper’s method on eggs that you are incubating for female. I had very poor result when I moved the eggs from 80 deg to 90 deg. I think the temperature change was too much for most of them. If you are still convinced that you should raise the female egg’s temps, make sure you do it gradually. Going from 80 to 90 over the course of week should be gentler to the developing leo.

I know I’m not the only one who had bad luck with Tremper’s method, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work. Just my 2 cents, hope this helps.

DaveCable

I emailed Tremper about, and I've done. I asked him how often he gets deformities, and whether he moves them all at once or gradually. He said he's never had a deformity, and after fourteen days he moves them directly to the warmer incubator. I haven't had any deformities either, and I do it exactly as he does it.
-----
Well sit right down my wicked son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am with my hand

He took his sister from his head
And then painted her on the sheets
And then rolled her up in grass and trees
And they kissed 'till they were dead

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

Well sit right down my evil son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

if you have AIM, IM me at chichandoCONrosa

I will say that myself and several other breeders had several problems with deformities, hatching rates, etc. after using Tremper's incubation method. Maybe you guys are doing something different that is improving your results. Then again, how many leopard geckos eggs did you incubate last year, how old were the breeders, and how many eggs hatched? We incubated several hundred eggs last year and lost over 50% of the ones we tried with Tremper's incubation method. Also, how do you explain the increased eye-lid deformities involving eggs that were incubated at fluctuating temperatures? Vitamin A, right? If you think it is Vitamin A, please explain why you think so. Sorry to be so defensive, but the Tremper incubation method has proven to be unnecessary and may cause serious harm to the developing embryo causing it to die within the egg. As for lighting color, well I've hatched out brown albinos that grow up to be light colored adults. I'm interested in your response.

>>I emailed Tremper about, and I've done. I asked him how often he gets deformities, and whether he moves them all at once or gradually. He said he's never had a deformity, and after fourteen days he moves them directly to the warmer incubator. I haven't had any deformities either, and I do it exactly as he does it.
>>-----
>>Well sit right down my wicked son
>>And let me tell you a story
>>About the boy who fell from glory
>>And how he was a wicked son
>>
>>This ain't no holiday
>>But it always turns out this way
>>Here I am with my hand
>>
>>He took his sister from his head
>>And then painted her on the sheets
>>And then rolled her up in grass and trees
>>And they kissed 'till they were dead
>>
>>This ain't no holiday
>>But it always turns out this way
>>Here I am, with my hand
>>
>>Well sit right down my evil son
>>And let me tell you a story
>>About the boy who fell from glory
>>And how he was a wicked son
>>
>>This ain't no holiday
>>But it always turns out this way
>>Here I am, with my hand
>>
>>This ain't no holiday
>>But it always turns out this way
>>Here I am, with my hand
>>
>>if you have AIM, IM me at chichandoCONrosa
-----
Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture

From everyone I've talked to directly about it who got deformities, they didn't follow Tremper's instructions directly. Some thought that fourteen days was too soon, and other thought that a gradual move was better. Those were the two key factors in my mind. Other then that, I can't honestly come up with a reason why you've had so many deformities, and I have had none. I didn't incubate hundreds of eggs, but somewhere between sixty and seventy-five. That's enough though that I should have close to the same percentage as you in deformities, instead of me with 0% and you with 50%. There IS some factor that we may never know that makes the difference. There are a million different things that could effect it. I use vermiculite, maybe you use perlite, maybe that's the difference. That's just an example though, I don't think that substrate would effect it much. Since I have females between five and one year(s) old, I don't think age has to do with it.

Maybe this will help, a comparison of how we set up eggs?

First, I soak vermiculite in water, then I squeze all the water out I can with my hand, and put it in a tupperwear container. Then, I bury the eggs almost all the way, but a little bit is peaking out, and I mark the bit that's peaking out with non-toxic pens so I can make sure that side is always up. There are no holes in the lid or anything, and every few days I open it up to circulate air. That's about all it is.
-----
Well sit right down my wicked son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am with my hand

He took his sister from his head
And then painted her on the sheets
And then rolled her up in grass and trees
And they kissed 'till they were dead

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

Well sit right down my evil son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

if you have AIM, IM me at chichandoCONrosa

Hey black i just got a quick question for ya. AT the daytona expo this year i spoke with tremper (on friday night at his gecko talk and for a good lengthh of time saturday morning) and we discussed a bunhc of things but the main thing we discussed was the tremper incubation method. Now tremper told me he never had deformities but he did have a significantly lower hatch rate due to a lot of the eggs moved would stop embryo development and kill the embryo. I did the tremper incubation method last year and where i usually have at least above and 80 percent hatch rate on fertile eggs i incubated 10 females this way and hatched out 3. I was wondering if you had noticed this trend too.

jason

No actually, I haven't. I haven't noticed any differences at all. Strange. This is what he wrote to me...

Hi
I move them all at once.
I have not noticed any deformities. Never.
Many beginners frequent the chat rooms for various reasons.
Beginners can often have nutritional or incubation errors
that make embryos die along the way.
I have never heard of an advanced breeder making this claim.
Regards,
Ron Tremper

The way he said that beginner's errors kill the embryos makes it seem like he is trying to say he doesn't lose any, but maybe I just misinterpretted it.
-----
Well sit right down my wicked son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am with my hand

He took his sister from his head
And then painted her on the sheets
And then rolled her up in grass and trees
And they kissed 'till they were dead

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

Well sit right down my evil son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

if you have AIM, IM me at chichandoCONrosa

I know i personally have been breeding and raising some extremely healthy stock going on 5 years now. Not to mention i have several breeder friends (including monica and charles of masterpiece gecko who are some of the best at what they do) who have had this happen to them. tremper personally told me he as well had a larger number of embryos die i was wondering if you had as well. I do agree that deformities can be cause by lack of nutrition in stock due to lack of knowledge but not embryo death.

Jason

That's just what he said. Like I said a few posts back, I think that if we ever find out the cause, it will be some little setup detail, that's not worth all the trouble to find out. I might have confused that though, the first time I tried to say it.
-----
Well sit right down my wicked son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am with my hand

He took his sister from his head
And then painted her on the sheets
And then rolled her up in grass and trees
And they kissed 'till they were dead

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

Well sit right down my evil son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

if you have AIM, IM me at chichandoCONrosa

I like Ron say to incubate females at 83 maybe 83 to 88 isn't too much for them?
-----
Leopard Geckos
1.1 Tangerine trempor albino
0.2 blizzards
1.1 Super Hypo Carrot tails (both Baldy)
1 amel corn snake

1.0.0 Common snapping turtle
0.1.0 Belize slider
0.1.0 Egyptian tortoise
0.0.1 blackknobbed sawback
0.0.1 stripeneck musk
0.0.1 nothern DBT

I'm pretty sure he goes from 80-90, though. I did. I, and I think most people, would recommend just not using the Tremper method, because I believe the difference between hurt embryos and healthy ones is an undiscovered detail.
-----
Well sit right down my wicked son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am with my hand

He took his sister from his head
And then painted her on the sheets
And then rolled her up in grass and trees
And they kissed 'till they were dead

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

Well sit right down my evil son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

if you have AIM, IM me at chichandoCONrosa

Nope, followed them to a T. and incubate the same way you do. We had over 50% of the eggs die after moving them. About 20% of the ones that hatched out had deformities. I will never try the "Tremper incubation method" again, there is no need.

>>From everyone I've talked to directly about it who got deformities, they didn't follow Tremper's instructions directly. Some thought that fourteen days was too soon, and other thought that a gradual move was better. Those were the two key factors in my mind. Other then that, I can't honestly come up with a reason why you've had so many deformities, and I have had none. I didn't incubate hundreds of eggs, but somewhere between sixty and seventy-five. That's enough though that I should have close to the same percentage as you in deformities, instead of me with 0% and you with 50%. There IS some factor that we may never know that makes the difference. There are a million different things that could effect it. I use vermiculite, maybe you use perlite, maybe that's the difference. That's just an example though, I don't think that substrate would effect it much. Since I have females between five and one year(s) old, I don't think age has to do with it.
>>
>>Maybe this will help, a comparison of how we set up eggs?
>>
>>First, I soak vermiculite in water, then I squeze all the water out I can with my hand, and put it in a tupperwear container. Then, I bury the eggs almost all the way, but a little bit is peaking out, and I mark the bit that's peaking out with non-toxic pens so I can make sure that side is always up. There are no holes in the lid or anything, and every few days I open it up to circulate air. That's about all it is.
>>-----
>>Well sit right down my wicked son
>>And let me tell you a story
>>About the boy who fell from glory
>>And how he was a wicked son
>>
>>This ain't no holiday
>>But it always turns out this way
>>Here I am with my hand
>>
>>He took his sister from his head
>>And then painted her on the sheets
>>And then rolled her up in grass and trees
>>And they kissed 'till they were dead
>>
>>This ain't no holiday
>>But it always turns out this way
>>Here I am, with my hand
>>
>>Well sit right down my evil son
>>And let me tell you a story
>>About the boy who fell from glory
>>And how he was a wicked son
>>
>>This ain't no holiday
>>But it always turns out this way
>>Here I am, with my hand
>>
>>This ain't no holiday
>>But it always turns out this way
>>Here I am, with my hand
>>
>>if you have AIM, IM me at chichandoCONrosa
-----
Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture

I'm quite interested as to why we have such different results then. I know the reason will be some little detail that seems insignifigant now. I don't believe it's luck.
-----
Well sit right down my wicked son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am with my hand

He took his sister from his head
And then painted her on the sheets
And then rolled her up in grass and trees
And they kissed 'till they were dead

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

Well sit right down my evil son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

if you have AIM, IM me at chichandoCONrosa