Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What's the general experience in size difference between n and s pines?

I have had groups of both (and blacks too)...

and the northerns and blacks I've had always seem to get a lot bigger than the s. pines....especially the leucistics...which I had a few of when they first became available.

My leucistic s. pines would eat like pigs but just never seemed to get much bigger than 4.5' even after like 4 years...

and the n. pines would be that size at 1 yr. old!

Dean,

According to the herp books I've read (Collins/Conant/Tennant, etc), the w/c Southern Pines' record length is somewhere between 92-96"; the record for a w/c Northern is 84". Given that the feeding season is longer in the Southern's home range, the size differential is probably a function as much of climate as genetics.

I owned a male Southern Pine which at 7 yrs was 94" in length and weighed slightly less than 10 lbs. I had a patternless female that was 83" at 5 yrs. I saw a post on this site some time back where someone had a Northern Pine that was 99".

My guess is given the right genetics and proper captive care, size is a toss up between Northerns and Southerns. I have never owned nor heard of a Black Pine exceeding 80", but would guess they could clear that in captivity.

KB

Thanks for sharing.

I have a feeling the s pines I had must have from deeply inbred stock.

Dean...........I've heard several anecdotal accounts of wild caught Florida pines reaching 8 feet. In one old Ditmar's story, a photographer had an 8 foot Florida pine draped over his shoulders while setting up a photo shoot. The animal became agitated and started coiling around the guy's neck. This photographer had no easy time locating the tail and unwrapping the snake. He maintained there was a real possibility the snake was attempting to strangle him. How's that for a wild colubrid encounter.

i had a similar encounter w/ a very large bullsnake once, only in my home. i couldn't get him off my neck w/out hurting him and ran to a mirror so i could see what was what and unravel him. probably a minute or so had elapsed by the time i got there. when i looked in the mirror, i couldn't believe the color of my face.....a blueish purple. that guy was doing a number on me and i was in trouble there for a moment or two........

Ok, while we are on Pit stories...Dan Dorson who is a KY naturalist, told a great story about herping in the panhandle many years ago:

It was dusk and they were road crusing...up ahead on the sandy road stretched a LARGE snake. As the car sped to get to the snake as it crossed the road, it became obvious it was a big adult pine snake.

As they drew closer...a great horned owl appeared out of nowhere, grabbed the snake, and began to fly off, as they watched in awe and dismay.

They watched as the owl gained altitude over a wooded area, the snake thrashing wildly the whole time.

The snake then manages to toss a coil up over the flying bird and partially wrap it up in flight.

...Both snake and owl come tumbling end over end to the ground.

of course the group raced to the area where it appeared they would have landed...but it was dark by this point and they were not found!

Terry Vandeventer recounted a story in his 1988 paper on Louisiana Pines that one of the animals he examined had been collected by some hunters who came across it constricting a red tailed hawk that apparently was a little "off" on its aim when it swooped down for a meal. If I remember the article correctly, the hawk was close to death when the hunters found it wrapped up by the snake.

Terry has a LOT of good stories....and he's good at telling them.