Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i love the discussion and exchange i have had here in the last month, but i wonder...

comparing this forum to my more familiar monitor forum, WHERE ARE THE URO BREEDERS?!?!??!?!?!

i see in Hobby's post below, someone mentioned the "great" breeding success of Doug Dix, Lindsey, and others, but i haven't noticed any forum participation from any "large" breeders. am i missing it? (could be, i am unfamiliar with screen names here

i would like to know, what is "great" success? it is my understanding that captive Uro breeding is in fact very poorly carried out. if it was successful, where are all the captive babies? (and not the import captive babies that have flooded the market recently, i mean u.s. captive bred Uros)

getting eggs is not hard, not at all. getting good eggs and hatching them is a different story. getting 20 eggs, and 2 good ones out of 20, is that success? i think that is a step from zero, but NOT success. 18 out of 20, 20 out of 20, that is successful.

is hatching 100 babies a year successful? at PE, we have hatched THOUSANDS of monitors in the last few years, i see no reason why a "successful" Uro breeder shouldn't be hatching well over 100 babies each and every year.

if not, then there is still something significantly wrong. not that it is a horribly bad thing, but the goal should be to fix it!

from my lizard experience, lack of breeding is basically keyed to social groups and to setup. social group problem- start with hatchlings together, not older animals (not quite THAT easy, but that is the basic strategy).

setup is much more detailed and difficult to capture. 100's of things to go wrong that contribute to no breeding at all- breeding but bad eggs, good eggs that go bad, incubation, full term death of eggs, dumping of eggs, all are tied to setup, and all can be fixed and addressed, with time and experience, and proper application of solid lizard theory.

so where are the posts from experienced breeders that discuss these problems and shed light on solutions for the hobbyist and future breeder?

i have visited the Uro sites, but aside from standard dull caresheets, there is not much more info offered. i would be interested to know the details of a "successful" breeding. egg counts, bad eggs, hatchling counts.

when the Uro community gains access to this type of discussion, and can work to improve results, then we should see wider success based on solid knowledge and theory, and less shot in the dark success.

so where are the breeders in this discussion?
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I am no breeder, but i bred my malis last year. She laid 6 fertile eggs, and 4 hatched. One of the hatchlings died from impaction which was my mistake, which is now corrected. So, laid 8 eggs, 6 fertile, 4 hatchlings, 3 survive. I am breeding the malis pair again this year. Even though i have seen no signs of breeding, i think the female has new scares from breeding with the male, and she is starting to get plump again. So i wouldn't be surprised if she was gravid. I incubated my eggs at 93, and for the last few weeks i incubated them as high as 95. So overall, i incubated them at 92-95 degrees F. In a chicken egg incubator. I had them in deli cups filled with 1 inch of moist vermiculite. The eggs were covered 3/4, and there was no holes in the lid of the deli cup. They hatched on day 76. They are 4 months old and are at 23-24 grams each. I moved them into a large cage with dirt in it, and they are starting to actually grow. They are very agressive towards eachother but they are all growing fast, and are not getting injured. I also have a growth chart with notes about the hatchlings i couldn't put all of it up but here is some of it.
Hatchling 1 Brown Hatching 2 Orange Hatchling 3 yellow
7 grams 7 gram day of hatching 7 grams
7 grams 7 grams week 1 7 grams
7 grams 7 grams week 2 6 grams
8 grams 7 grams week 3 7 grams
10 grams 9 grams week 4 8 grams
11 grams 10 grams week 5 10 grams
11 grams 11 grams week 6 10 grams
12 grams 11 grams week 7 10 grams
13 grams 12 grams week 8 11 grams
13 grams 14 grams week 9 12 grams
14 grams 16 grams week 10 13 grams
12 grams 14 grams week 11 14 grams
15 grams 15 grams week 12 16 grams
16 grams 15 grams week13 19 grams
16 grams 15 grams week 14 19 grams
17 grams 17 grams week 15 19 grams
19 grams 17 grams week 16 19 grams
20 grams 19 grams week 17 21 grams

Week 1 Not that active, not eating that much, not eating insects, colors darker than normal
Week 2 Very active, eating a lot (most of a flower peddle), eating insects, colors darkening, growing longer
Week 3 Very active, eating a lot (1 flower peddle), eating insects, colors lighter, becoming aggressive towards each other
Week 4 Very active, eating three times as much (3 flower peddles), colors darkening, grower faster, shedding on tails, aggressive towards each other.
Week 5 Very active, eating three whole hibiscus flowers colors same, growing a lot faster, shedding on tail, very aggressive towards each other.
Week 6 Very active, eating three whole hibiscus flowers colors same, growing a lot faster, shedding on tail, very aggressive towards each other, growing longer.
Week 7 Very active, eating three whole hibiscus flowers, colors same, grower a lot faster, shedding on all body parts, aggressive towards each other, growing longer.
Week 8 Very active, eating 4-5 grams of food per day colors very dark with yellow dots, finishing shedding on all body parts, aggressive towards each other, growing longer and fatter.
Week 9 Very active, eating 11 grams of food per day colors very dark with yellow dots, finishing shedding on all body parts, extremely aggressive towards each other, growing longer and fatter.
Week 10 Very active, eating 13 grams of food per day colors very dark with yellow dots, finishing shedding on all body parts, separated because of aggression, growing longer and fatter.
Week 11 Going into brumation, all of them are separated
Week 12 Pulled them out of brumation, put millet seeds as bedding, are starting to gain weight by eating the seeds, are growing faster
Week 13 Going into brumation again eating less, inactive
Week 14 Coming out of brumation
Week 15 Very aggressive put them all in the big adult cage with 1 foot of dirt.
Week 16 Are eating more, more active, aggressive, head bobbing, and are starting to dig holes under rocks
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Mike
1.1.3 maliensis (Spike, Marshmellow, Brown, Green, Orange)
0.2 Female U. Acanthinurus-Werneri x "coming soon"
0.1 Pit Bull/German Shephard/ Lab/ ect. mix (Kodak) - looks like an over grown toco bell dog.

we can get allot more input on this board.

Jack
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0.1 Hypo-Tang Leopard Gecko
0.1 Tremper Albino Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Crested Geckos
0.0.1 CB Baby Saharan Uromastyx

i am not "calling out" the big breeders, i don't think that would go over too well

but the exchange of info part, yes. i am more used to the monitor forums, where there is a regular back and forth on not just specific husbandry, but theory and ideas, between breeders, "big breeders", hobbyists, field guys, and other enthusiasts.

i too feel that the Uro community would benefit from a more lively exchange with folks from all levels, and it seems that in this Uro forum, the breeder expert level is not really represented...
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles