Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know that there are different colors of whites tree frogs and I have also heard that some may change color from blues to greens to browns. Do they actually change color? What causes them to change a certain color?

They will change to blend in with their surroundings. Also some say because of their mood. One of mine goes from green to brownish green while my other 2 stay green. It just depends on the frog

Matt

Alrighty, because I have heard that brown in a white's can mean that it is not healthy, but then to contridict that I have heard that they just change color with backgrounds also - its good to hear another person's opinion.

I have to say I have never seen any evidence for the theory that White's change to color according to surroundings. Here are two frogs that I have kept together for many years. No matter what surface they are on they are never even close to the same color. These two are healthy adult frogs and I have had them for about five years. The green frog is always green; the brown frog is dirt brown all day and pale green at night. No variation at all.

I have also had frogs change color because they were stressed or ill, but this seems to be a change in that individual's characteristic coloring, rather than a case where you cold say, Brown is a sick color and green is healthy. So I believe you don;t need to worry unless a frog is suddenly turning a color he never showed before.

Henry Capobianco

Trying another pic. Does it work?

I disagree. I have seen my juvenile male whites turn green while resting on a leaf, but later change to brown while climbing some cork bark. I believe that they change color due to temperature, surroundings, and illness/stress.
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0.0.5 Blue Dendrobates Auratus
3.2.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2.2.0 Asian Floating Frogs (Occidozyga Lima)
1.1.0 White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)

That brown whites is Fat! I would say almost unhealthily so.
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0.0.5 Blue Dendrobates Auratus
3.2.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2.2.0 Asian Floating Frogs (Occidozyga Lima)
1.1.0 White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)

yeh i agree your brown WTF is defineately overweight, and your green one isn't to far behind!

luke z
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http://luke_zecevic.tripod.com/frogsofaustralia

Thank you for your kind concern but actually that frog is quite old (more than 8 years) and very healthy even though he is on the THIN side. Not at all fat. He has well developed supraorbital ridges which may what you are interpreting as fat. Both the fact that he is thin and that his eye-brows are bulgy are both very normal in an older frog; much harder to keep weight on them. The green frog is the fatter one, but it is a female and younger, so she is normal as well.

the supratympanic ridge is clearly folding to far over the tympanic membrane which is a clear sign of an overweight frog, and plus a fold is begining to start over the frogs eye. i have seen vey old frogs(12years) which do not have their suprtympanic ridge fold way over their tympanic membranes like yours.

as you would now, overweight frogs do have a shorter life span, and in serious cases if the skin folds begin to devolop over the eye this can cause blindness.

luke z
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http://luke_zecevic.tripod.com/frogsofaustralia

Hey little Lukey I remember when you got your first frog. And it was long ago. You're practically and expert now, huh? I even know which pet store book you got your info from. But it's in error. Here's some real info for you.

Note on the green frog that the flesh is full and not saggy. That's a fat frog. Not overly, but close. No supraorbital ridges because it's a young female. Now note on the brown frog that the folds of skin look deflated; saggy. That's a formerly fat frog whose skin is less filled out than it once was. And because it is old and male, it has well developed ridges. Also note that on the back of that frog there is some definition of the underlying bone -- not one round mass like the other. The size of the ridges tell you nothing -- its the tone of the fat bodies that determine whether the animal is fat. The brown one is a thin frog although I have worked very hard to fill him out, he just doesn't eat as much as the others.

Hang in there, Lukey. You'll get there eventually. But you might want to get yourself some humility. It will be easier to learn once you do. And throw away the TFH books. They are wrong.

Henry Capobianco

As usual, I just absolutely love you and your style/approach Henry!! Since we're both actually here at the same time and the subject has been broached, I do have a question about weight with my WTF. When I first got him, he ate like a pig and was quickly putting on some weight and getting some decent mass but now it's as if he knows he is always going to have steady food so he isn't too worried about eating more than the minimum 2-3 crix every 2-3 days. He's not by any means too thin but isn't as healthily plump as I'd like for him to be either. He's around 2 years old now, is this something that he should already have or does it come with a bit more age? He won't eat waxies and only occasionally will eat earthworms, I don't like to feed mealies or supers and he loves pinkies but I only give them as a treat here and there. Should I be concerned? Thanks!!
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Happy Frogging!!!

~Becki~

In the absence of illness or an intimidating tankmate, I wouldn't worry about it Becki. As long as he's not seriously underweight he will catch up. There is nothing wrong with feeding an occassional anole or pinkie to him though. In the wild they will eat all kinds of things including small birds and rodents. They love anoles and house geckos, which are not as high in fat as mice are.

If there is a tankmate that bullies him you might teach him to hand-feed or put a flowerpot over the other frog as a handicap. Be sure to let her out after a while though.

Henry

Hmmmm.....an anole. He doesn't seem like he is a great deal longer than one - how big svl should he be to eat one? And, is there anything I should look for when going to buy them? My usual shop doesn't carry them, are they often carriers of things that can be passed along to the frogs? He doesn't have a cage mate - well not yet, until the blue I'll be getting from Hank gets here and big enough to join him. And he isn't too thin - he does have quite a pudgy belly that sags, it's "rolls"on his sides hang over when he is sitting on his branch but he doesn't have the mass in his head - does that come more with age and maturity. I'll look into the anoles and see where I can find some. I wonder if Kaia would like them as well - I'm certain her big self is plenty big enough to eat them. Thanks Henry.
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Happy Frogging!!!

~Becki~

I must have misunderstood the question. I thought you were trying to put weight on this frog or expand his diet. If not, then don't change anything; he sounds fine.

Yes, a young frog will have a disproportionately larger head to some extent. The body tends to catch up with the head over time.

Anoles come in all sizes and a frog can eat one that is as long in the body as the frog's mouth is wide. I used to save and freeze the freshly-dead lizards from my anole and gecko tanks. You might find a pet store that will give you their culls, which might include dead ones and ones that have lost their tails. Lizards that have been dead too long will look more shrunken than newly dead ones will.

And yes, it is possibly to pass pathogens along, however odds are that the frog will deal with it the same way he would deal with it in the wild. You have to weigh the risk of what he might eat in a varied diet against the risk of eating too limited a diet.

HC

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*~~Whitney~~*

There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.

hold on! first of all, i am no expert and i dont make myself out as one!! why be so childish and make this discussion into a personal argument. thats why i am sick and tired of this forums everyone likes to fight, and obviously you are one of those people! you have your opionion, and i have mine, i dont even now what darn book your talking about!

luke z
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http://luke_zecevic.tripod.com/frogsofaustralia

Luke, Henry wasn't trying to make a personal attack against you. The expert comment was sort of tongue in cheek as a few of the people that have been around for a while (such as Henry) remember back when some of us didn't have a clue what we were talking about. Actually the post was complimenting you a bit on your growth. The intent of the post was to provide you with the correct information in a personal hey-I-know-you manner, but apparently you don't recall interacting with Henry before. Obviously a few people here either don't remember or haven't been here long enough to know that this particular poster is one of the "good guys," and definitely isn't lacking as far as knowledgeable expertise and has much experience caring for frogs. So in your post when you kind of did the standard sterile "your frog isn't in great shape and heres why" dressing down, it wasn't taken personally but the advice was given to know your audience. And if you didn't get your information from a book, thats fine. It's common knowledge that there are a few books out there with incorrect information. It was merely an assumption, no harm, no foul. So take a breath, man. No one was attacking anyone.
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*~~Whitney~~*

There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.

In absolutely none of the many Whites I have kept have I seen any evidence of them changing colors to blend in with the background or substrate they are on or around. It may be easy to jump to that conclusion as most vivaria are primarily composed of the green foliage and the brown cage furniture and substrate, but I have never seen any of my Whites or any others do it intentionally. Actually some frogs will remain dark for a large part of the day only to turn the "normal" green at night, which directly contradicts that theory as a nocturnal frog would seeming become darker in the night hours if camo. is a survival tactic.
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*~~Whitney~~*

There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.

My personal oppinion is that it is mainly to do with the level of light reaching the frog, and secondarily to do with the individual frog (i.e. some will go a different shade in different levels of light) but then again Henry's treefrogs completely contradict this theory!

Just as in humans, I assume there are light receptors on specific parts of a frogs body (we actually have them on the underside of our knee joints strangely enough) so the frog can change colour when asleep. The theory that they change colour in accordance with they're surroundings seems to me due to the reflected light from bright leaves etc causes the frog to go a lighter shade, and vice versa where dark branches reflect very little light. You could try this by putting a young frog on a branch and shining a strong light at it from all directions (since I don't know whether the light receptors are on the body, could be just abve the belly) and see if the frog goes green. My whites do. I haven't noticed personally some frogs having a preferable colour, but this may occur in older frogs that have lost the instinctive urgency to change colour after an easy life in captivity where they have no predators etc (hence notice how acclimatised captives often sleep right out in the open, something usually unnatural for a large treefrog).

Saying that, if you did the same to a green anole, it will still stay brown in the bright light (receptors on the belly perhaps, where under more influence from reflected light?)

Fascinating concept, and something I have tried to find out the answer to for a long time!

Now that isn't a completely new thoery to me, but it did slip my mind until now. However slippery my mind may be, however, I will admit that theory does make a great deal of sense, and is def. more probable than the camo one. However I have experienced frogs (Whites) that do have a color preference regardless of the area that they are in at the time. One of my females remains dark during the both day and night cycles and regardless of what surface she is on or underneath. In situations like this one the nick is that one can only argue theory against theory, no one has adaquately studied exactly why the color changes occur. But it is fun trying to keep up with all of the theories and applying them when observing your own collection.
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*~~Whitney~~*

There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.

I myself have never thought about that possiblity either but have seen some things with my own frogs that trigger some doubt. First, as you said, Henry's pair shown above obviously disprove it a bit and I am wondering if maybe the frogs are stressed by the light shining on them and that is triggering a change of colors. I know the WTF I have now is always reddish-brown, maybe will exhibit a vague tint of green at night but is usually the same brown color. Regardless of where he is in the tank, time of day, temp, lighting, etc. But, if he is out and about at night, and anything spooks him, POOF he turns purply brown. I am a firm believer that they definitely change color when ill or stressed and also feel equally as strong that these are not the only things that cause the changes in color. As Whit said, it's just theory, but from what I have seen, it's what I have gathered.
Just my .02 worth.
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Happy Frogging!!!

~Becki~