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Ornate pics and wood basking stacks...

robyn@ProExotics Dec 12, 2003 08:39 PM

a few quick pics here...

the first is of our wood basking stacks. i go over this more in depth in our FAQ, i will link that below.

the stacks allow for a big temp gradient, with a minimal amount of space. the temp generally drops 5-10 degrees per level, so if i am shooting for 140-150 for the top spot (notice the basking Uros, as well as the one scampering out from the bottom : ) it drops 130, 125, 118, 110, 95, 87, as you go down through the stacks...

the animals love them : )

i stole these particular stacks from our Ackie monitor supplies, if i were to remake them specifically for these baby Ornates, i would make them shorter (per level) so that the fit in between levels is as snug as possible, giving the best "crevice" type feel.

something else for you guys to try : )
PE FAQ on wood basking stacks...
PE FAQ on wood basking stacks...

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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Replies (5)

robyn@ProExotics Dec 12, 2003 08:45 PM

this animal is just about 4 months old, and i just weighed it in at 115 grams. i just snatched him out of one of our soil setups, and i didn't take time to polish him up or anything, but beautiful nonetheless. he wasn't really big on posing, and i was taking the pictures all alone tonight

and a slightly different, "pudgier" shot...

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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

jack7777766 Dec 13, 2003 01:32 PM

Hey Robin,

First off, gorgeous uro, looks adorable!!

Ive been reading your post, and last time I saw that you said youre uros went from about 10 to 120 grams in 4 months and thought it was a typo, now I just saw you post that your ornate is 4 months old and 115 grams, so it looks like its not a typo.

I have a baby saharan that I bought three months ago, at 2 months he weighed 10 grams compared to 6 when I got him, and Im expecting him to wheigh around 12 grms when I measure him in a couple of days. This is consistent with a couple of other peoples results that Ive read on a uro mailing list, their results Im talking about is also on saharans and they have more than one.

Since saharans and ornates grow to about the same size, I would think that their growth rate would be very similar. Correct me if Im wrong.
However still your increase is allot more than what I have with mine. Since on this forum youve discussed caging, temps and of course susbstrate, I guess my question is :

What on earth are you feeding yours????? LOOL

Could you tell me about your ornates diet please???

Thanks
Jack
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0.1 Hypo-Tang Leopard Gecko
0.1 Tremper Albino Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Crested Geckos
0.0.1 CB Baby Saharan Uromastyx

robyn@ProExotics Dec 13, 2003 04:54 PM

the growth of our Uros is something that i anticipated, given the previous lizard results we have seen with monitors and Gilas. to capture, once again, what i think is THE MOST IMPORTANT bit of information i can give...

"ANY GOOD LIZARD INFORMATION is GOOD LIZARD INFORMATION FOR YOU!"

(good gravy, this is SO IMPORTANT!!!!! i hope lots of folks read this post, and really try and UNDERSTAND what this means!)

this means that with critical thought and application, you can take successful ideas from other lizard husbandry (and even snake husbandry) and apply it to your own species.

it may not apply word for word, you can't say that Uros eat greens, therefore i am going to start feeding my Afrikan monitor only greens. it is the THEORY that applies

for example, you could take a lot of the detail from my recent Water Monitor article in Reptiles magazine and apply it to the Uros. properly and intelligently apply it, but apply it nonetheless. you can take a LOT of the info from our site's FAQ and apply it to Uros, absolutely. lizard lizards lizards, apply apply apply!

so anyway, food and growth theory...

"keep 'em hot and feed 'em a lot!"

lizards need two basic things to grow. calories(nutrition) and metabolism(heat). with enough access to proper temps, they can digest just about anything. Frank Retes from the Goanna Ranch says that with enough heat monitors could eat and pass doorknobs. that is a figure of speech, but not far off.

that is why impactions are of little concern. with proper heat gradients, lizards can digest dirt, soil, and sand (twigs, hair, bones, stems, whatever) easily.

with maximized digestion capabilities, the animals can process a lot of food. nutritional calories (as opposed to empty calories) equal health and growth. we let the growing lizards set their own diet. they can eat as much as they like. all that intake is turned into growth, and the animals really thrive, in fantastic health.

our actual diet probably isn't that much different than what most folks offer here. we have yet to offer insects or meat, it has all been veggies. greens, veggies, lentils, a bit of fruit, etc. and a good supplement (MinerAll)

i AM thinking of branching out into the meats a bit, to see what is possible there. i don't buy for a second that a Uro in the wild would turn down a rodent that has fallen into the four foot tall burrow entrance. certainly they would be opportunistic feeders to some degree (the rodent idea raised by Dr. Sprackland).

anyway, our 4 grams to 120 gram in 4 months rate didn't seem that odd to me, because i have seen it with other lizards. it is fairly common for experienced monitor breeders to raise hatchling animals to breeding size and get viable eggs within a single year. we regularly raise Blackthroat and Water monitors to well over 4 ft in a single year, no sweat.

that growth rate with Uros is much more rare, because (i believe) folks aren't idealizing their setups. once again, it is not just one piece of the puzzle (soil) that opens up that possibility, it is the whole picture.

give the animals a good setup (soil not only burrows, but helps eliminate stress!), give them great temps (our temps go near 150F) and give them plenty of food, and there is your growth.

take one of those pieces (or other more subtle pieces) away, and you have poor growth. lots of food does no good if the animal doesn't have the proper basking spot or access to the spot to get the metabolism up.

a super basking spot doesn't equal growth if there is a shortage of food.

a stressed out animal will neither bask properly or feed properly, so a stressed animal in a "great" setup may not grow either. and in that case, the setup may not be so "great" after all, right?

there is no simple answer to say, "just feed more food" or "just feed bacon and peanut butter every third day". it isn't a secret diet ingredient that gets the growth, and healthy, thriving animals. it is a great setup, and giving the animals (Uros in this case) all the TOOLS they need to achieve life events in the most efficient and healthy way possible.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

jack7777766 Dec 13, 2003 09:19 PM

Thank You Robyn,

I definitely now understand about the whole and not just a piece.
Im hopefully gonna change allot soon and hopefully hell do even better than hes doing now.

Youre growth still amazes me!!

I would still like to know what greens and veggies you are feeding, since most of the greens and veggies that are recommended and I have been using are going to be less accessible now to me maybe I can add a few of the things you use to give better variety.

Dont worry Im defginitelly not just going to immitate youre feeding and forget the rest, Im gonna be doing all the rest of the stuff (heating, substrate etc.) I just like knowing different veggies and stuff people feed their uros, since Im mostly a meat person and dont know much about vegs at all LOL ,
So unless I know its good and people have used them I dont take the risk LOL.

Thanks Again
Jack
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0.1 Hypo-Tang Leopard Gecko
0.1 Tremper Albino Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Crested Geckos
0.0.1 CB Baby Saharan Uromastyx

Spankenstyne Dec 13, 2003 05:29 AM

I gotta try a variation on that.I'm going to try and silicon something together out of rocks/slate that is similar to that.Obviously without a nice round hole drilled out but i might get something close if i place pieces right.I've been thinking about that for a while now, and seeing those uros loving it just cemented the plan.

Nice lookin little Uro's too !

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