Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi I just got done putting together 1 of the baby racks where I'll be keeping some of this springs hatchlings in. Basically what I did was just went to Home Depot and bought a regular shop shelf unit and attached 4 foot dual tube fluorescent shop lights on the bottom of every shelf on chains that can be lowered or raised depending on the height of the bins, and I attached 3 hooks on the bottom of each shelf where dome lights with spot bulbs can be hung from, and adjusted as well. Nothing fancy at all. What I wanted to know is if you breed or house large numbers of babies in Rubbermaid type tubs what size do you recommend? I had wanted to get three bins to a shelf. I have three now 24Lx16Wx8H about how many can be housed safely in this size if I bought them all this size?? I can only go 16 inches wide to be able to house 3 bins to a shelf, but I can go bigger length wise then 24 inches, and higher. Do you feel 8 inches is high enough to keep them in? I could screen the bins as well but I wanted to keep them low so they will benefit from the dual UVB tubes. I just plan to put a river rock in for basking, their greens/veggies dish, and a liner substrate. Just a very Simple setup for the babies. What size bins do you use or recommend, and how many do you safely house in that size? Thanks so much for any help. It's greatly appreciated
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Mystical Dragons webshots pictures
Mystical-Dragons Website

Hey Mattman, I used almost the same setup. I would go with taller bins. That way you can not screen the top. You can get ones that will house them for 2 months before they can get out. I personally think that Iris makes the best bins. They can be tough to find. It is important to get good tubs for beardies. The heat/ligth/uv cause most tubs to become brittle. I personally do not like homz or sterlite. They become very brittle and break. Not a good thing. I like the Iris 86 L they measure about 34 X 16 X 16 or so not really sure. They work very well. I found the ones I have at ames, but they went out of bussiness. Just holding them and then another brand you can feel the difference. Just my thoughts. I probably have the same exact rack in my animal room right now. Is it 5 ft long X 24 inches deep by 6 ft high? I like that rack. I currently have 2 75s on mine. As for numbers I like to put low 20s top in there up to about 3-4 weeks old. I tend to sell some off at that time. I give them a half log and low branches. So they can all bask. I personally don't like food dishes for babies. I like to spread veggies and pellets on the paper towels. Just my opinion it is a little messier but I think they eat both better that way. Misting or soaking daily is very important if they aren't killing the veggies. Good luck with the coming breeding season you have some great looking dragons and can not wait to see the babies. Are you just breeding one pair? Are your guys brumating right now?
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

Thanks so much for the tips Derek. Yup the pairs that might breed this spring are now down for the count, and have been for over a month and a half now. They all went down the same time I'm definitely going to take it slow if you know what I mean. I don't want to be shipping babies into next January cause it is freezing here in NJ LOL. So one pair is all I'm planning right now, and my fingers are crossed for that pair to be Foster & Candy, but I also have Anna & buddy if one does not go or I decide to in fact do the second pair later, but not all at once that's for sure. The reason I went with the lower bins was to allow the use of fluorescent instead of the high powered MVB for uvb. The rack I got was 4ft wide 6 ft high and 24 inches deep. That's why I wanted 16in wide tubs so I could fit 3 to a shelf. the fluorescent fixture & dome lights are on chains so they can be lowered and raised depending on tub height, and temps, but I don't want to go to high or else the UVB is useless. I might have to screen the tops on shorter tubs to make it work. Yeah the veggies/pellets on paper towels is a great idea, Chris Allen gave me that tip a while back too. I guess they eat, and find it better if they are walking through it as babies. Thanks so much for the help, and I'll let you check it out when it is finished and ready to go. Thank you and good luck to you as well.
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Mystical Dragons webshots pictures
Mystical-Dragons Website

Cold in NJ??? Try coming up here to boston. Land were dragons brumate on there own terms because the light cycle is so short in the winter. Was just telling Cheri last weekend we got 2-3 ft of snow. Right now got 6 fresh inches and going to be a foot by morning. Another snow storm coming in for Wednesday. What a joy. Yeah I am looking at maybe 6 females this year. Maybe 2 from Tarzan. Maybe joel's baby and one from cheri to my big orange meethead. And then I am going to breed my oddball yellow boy from last year to 1 or two dragons. Plan to wholesole a some to small mom and pop pet shops that do a good job and to one distributor that runs a pet shop and sell a good amount online.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

Wow sounds like a heavy load Derek. It's just me here doing this NO help, and this being the first year breeding with dragons I definitely do not want to burn out or end up in a state institution LOL So two pairs at the most staggered this spring so I don't have 160 babies looking at me to find them good homes in 2 months. Now next year is when I'll get into the Hypo Pastels, now that is going to be exciting. I just love thier colors, and I plan on breeding in some really colorful hets I picked up secretly, well not a secret anymore LOL.. Your breeding the import next season? Mine turned out to be male too, but I'm waiting till next season to do anything with him. Good Luck with all those babies.. Do you do any shows at all?
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Mystical Dragons webshots pictures
Mystical-Dragons Website

Hey Matt, I may do the import this coming season. We shall see. It is up to him really. If he is over 400 grams and will breed I will breed him. But I will not be brumating him so he may not breed. We shall see. I tried to breed my orange meathead this past year but he had no desire to breed. Sometimes they will breed with no brumation sometimes they will not. If he doesn't he doesn't and I breed 2 less females. I also plan to breed 5 female balls to make some possible hets for various morphs. Also will breed probably 1 boa a dbl het for ghost boa so that should be pretty cool. Last year I did a couple of litle shows (NH and ME and local herp society) didn't sell a thing. LOL poop happens. Need to get better setup so dragons show their color. also tough there are a lot of people with nice dragons at these shows and sell them for what I can wholesale them for almost. That truely disgusts me. I pay good money for mine and care for them well and got some bozo selling awesome dragons for $50. I don't know how they do it, even they seem to not sell that many. I may try to do the white plains show but seems like getting table is tough. I got some ideas how to set up the table at a show from emailing and seeing the dachius set ups. I am getting a good name at the local herp society so I could get some sales from there. People know I produce good dragons and the dist I go to should be opening a new store when I start to get them that may be a good outlet. I am very intruiged to see what the market for the wild crosses will be. If he does breed for me it will be to two girls in the 500 gram range that are big and plump, one produces eggs that look like they are ready to hatch. will be her second season the others first season. It is a lot of work but hopefully it pays off. I enjoy coming home and spending an hour or two in the reptile room. It is fun. Weekends are very busy around here with all the animals. Snake feeding day is fun and I imagine will become even more fun with a bunch of babies.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

I use rubbermaid 59 qt clear bins.....they measure at the top, 24 x 16, at the bottom 23 x 15 and are 8 3/4 inches tall. I've had good success with them. As new hatchlings I only use upside down clay pot dishes, so no need for screen unless you raise the basking spot more than 3-4 inches above the bottom, or too close to the sides. I use the deeper dishes which raise the floor just under 2 inches and put the uvb right on top of the tub.

I house newborn groups up to fifteen in one.....10 is more usual as my clutches are usually greater than 15 and I split them in two. As they start eating they are pulled and grouped as eaters and non-eaters......by 2-3 weeks, they have been reduced to groups of 6-8 and by 4 weeks groups of 4-5. By 8 weeks, which is when I start selling them, they are in placed in regular tanks.

With this method I usually have no few if any nips.....out of 90 hatchlings late this summer/early fall....I've had only 2 nips.....one of which happened at a show as we had problems with electricity and by the time I could feed they were ravenous. And the other is a missing toenail that possibly happened from getting it caught in the screen of an outdoor cage as other than the missing toenail there were no marks on the toe.
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Tracey
Tracey's Beardies
www.beardiecrazy.com

Oops....should proofread....I meant the clay pot dish raises the basking spot just under 3 inches, not 2,.....sorry
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Tracey
Tracey's Beardies
www.beardiecrazy.com

I was just curious how many bins you needed to house all 90 babies in this fashion, because this is what I would like to do (keep as few as possible to a bin) but I need a roundabout estimate to the amount of bins it took to do this to see if this is possible for the space I have aside for them? Of course I want as few nips as possible, and low numbers to a tub seems safe. Thanks so much Tracy
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Mystical Dragons webshots pictures
Mystical-Dragons Website

That's hard to say, as they were differing ages....but for 90 until 2 weeks would be 6 to 9 tubs, depending on clutch sizes.....until 4 weeks would be from 12-15 again depending on groupings.....until 8 weeks 18-22 again depending on groupings.

Most likely you will have varying ages, so your tubs will be a combination that is less than the most list.....an then as you sell the older ones you will reduce.....above would be the maximums you would need if they all hatched within 1-2 weeks of each other.....so it's best to space your breeding out just a tad so space doesn't become an issue.

I think at the peak I had about 12-14 tubs going as the 90 were hatched over an 8 week period.

Grimdog is right about the sterilite ones cracking....but I've had good luck with the rubbermaid.....I have several that are over 5 years old now.
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Tracey
Tracey's Beardies
www.beardiecrazy.com

Np
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Mystical Dragons webshots pictures
Mystical-Dragons Website

np
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Tracey
Tracey's Beardies
www.beardiecrazy.com

My set up is basically the same idea. I do use the Sterilite tubs, but as Derek mentioned they do become brittle after time. However, they are cheap and easily replaceable. Here's a pic. The lights are out so you can't see the flourescents, but as I said it's pretty much the same idea.

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Paul Morlock
of CaptiveCreations and
Retial Sales Rep. for Sandfire Dragon Ranch

Paul you should see if you can find the Iris ones. You will be very impressed. The are virtually the same size as the Sterlite ones. I have had a few of them over 2 yrs and not a sign of weakness no cracking at all. I for one find the sterlites start to break down after just 6 months or so. Just a thought, I never realized it until I held a 90 qt sterlite and an Iris 86 l at the same time. I was amazed at how thick the Iris was and also that they were not cracking just plain sturdy. I plan on junking all my Sterlites maybe use them for packing purposes.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

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www.reptilerooms.com

So I need to find a new distributor of them. I haven't had any luck as of yet. I might have to look online. They are well worth the extra money to not replace them biyearly.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

Forgot to mention.....they are the 90L tubs. I keep up to 20 babies in each one and can usually keep them in this size tub for up to 2 months without any problems, just have to feed the hell out of them to avoid nips.
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Paul Morlock
of CaptiveCreations and
Retial Sales Rep. for Sandfire Dragon Ranch

Paul, would you have the dimensions lxwxh offhand are they bigger then 16in in width? I thank you so much for the pics, and info. It is apprerciated.
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Mystical Dragons webshots pictures
Mystical-Dragons Website

Ah Mattman, you are out of luck. I have a bunch of those and they are 16.75" wide and 13" high. The Iris ones are 17.75" wide and 13" high. They are both about 35" long.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

Bummer I need exactly 16inches wide or else I can't fit the three to a shelf. Aaahhh!!! Maybe I'll return this 4 foot shelf unit for a 5ft one. I'm sure they won't notice the screw holes LOL
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Mystical Dragons webshots pictures
Mystical-Dragons Website

You probably could get away with it. Oh go look for the outdoor timer with a 6 plug block built in. $20 and very much worth it. They are harder to get in the summer. Very nice when you have a rack and safer than a regular timer with a strip plugged in. But I like to hardwire everything. I tried to draw up plans but it wasn't easy to do. I know exactly how to do it but can't put it on paper.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

When first hatched, the clutch can stay together the first week, then we separate them into groups of 7-8 til they are a month old and then to groups of 4-5 by size and they stay that way until the go to their new homes. We have had no tail or toe nips following this, but I know others that have followed the same and still get a few nips..... it happens sometimes

I think that we used reptariums for them instead of enclosed cages helped too, they had more space and its their natural instinct to climb and sleep hanging on the side, they also could them see us coming and not suddenly have people popping up overhead of them.

These last group raised this way, was really people friendly and not jumpy babies. LOL, they are almost too laid back and have no fear.
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www.reptilerooms.com

Well, they sure are laid back friendly dragons to say the least. Meg is a wonderful dragon for sure. Might be something to look into thanks, and thanks for breaking it down on how you split them up at different ages.
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Mystical Dragons webshots pictures
Mystical-Dragons Website

I do agree with Cheri though on the more sociable and well adjusted part. The dragons I had loved climbling around and were definatley well adjusted to people.

Robert