Reptile & Amphibian Forums

(there's been a long discussion about hondurans, hybrids, crosses, etc., on the kingsnake forum. it seems more appropriate on this forum. in an effort to contribute some facts to the conversation the following is excerpted from Vol 7, Issue 5 of The Vivarium, "Honduran Milk Snakes, by Louis W. Porras):

(NOTE: if a parenthetical comment is mine it is so identified; otherwise parenthetical remarks are those of the author of the article, Louis Porras)

"...After the unification of Germany and broader exposure to other breeders in Europe, the Hortenbachs (TD note: in 1989 they hatched an albino baby from animals they believe were hondurensis) decided to make their breeding success public by presenting a paper at a herpetological meeting, and later by publishing a brief overview of their success. In that article they listed all subspecies of Lampropeltis triangulum in which albinism is known to occur. Included in that list was the taxon polyzona.

"In 1994 I was made aware of the existence of albino L.t.polyzona in Europe and received photographs of two specimens. Although the albino polyzona and hondurensis looked strikingly similar, I presumed this was to be expected, as both taxa have many overlapping characters in color, pattern, and scalation. The albino polyzona subsequently were imported into the United States by Brian Barczyk.

"Because of their resemblance to albino hondurensis, and to put to rest any questions future breeders might have, i asked my friend Helmut Hansen in Switzerland to investigate the origin of the albino polyzona. It was during this query that he discovered that in 1990 the Hortenbachs decided to thin out their collection and sold some of their 'normal' (i.e., non-albino) hondurensis to a friend. Unbeknowst to them, these snakes were taken to a prominent reptile dealer in the former West Germany. Rumor has it that the snakes were sold as polyzona because some of the specimens had a broken snout ring (a character which occurs both in hondurensis and poloyzona) and because polyzona is a rarer taxon in Europe and commands a higher price. Although this information must have dealt a severe blow to the aspirations of being the first to breed albino polyzona in this country, Brian Barczyk, the gentleman that he is, graciously accepted our findings and in a sense was glad that any speculation regarding the origin of the 'polyzona' was put to rest."

TD NOTE: the above represents three paragraphs from a fact-filled, six page article that cites Williams' Systematics and natural history of the American Milk Snake, and Wilson & Meyer's The Snakes of Honduras. It describes Porras' extensive experience with hondurensis here and in its natural range. There are 26 color plates. I'd urge anyone interested in knowing more about the hondurans to find a copy of this issue, perhaps in a library. Anyone believing they have more accurate information, or information that contradicts the published accounts, would serve herpetoculture by publishing the facts supporting their conclusions. IMHO.

Until then, I find Porras' credentials convincing, and his conclusions seemingly well documented and therefore persuasive.

peace
terry dunham
albino tricolors

Terry
I thought the polyzona that Brian B. (BHB) misidentified was because of the band count and not the nose ring.
Oh well, add another piece to the puzzle.

Rainer

"Because of their resemblance to albino hondurensis, and to put to rest any questions future breeders might have, i asked my friend Helmut Hansen in Switzerland to investigate the origin of the albino polyzona. It was during this query that he discovered that in 1990 the Hortenbachs decided to thin out their collection and sold some of their 'normal' (i.e., non-albino) hondurensis to a friend. Unbeknowst to them, these snakes were taken to a prominent reptile dealer in the former West Germany. Rumor has it that the snakes were sold as polyzona because some of the specimens had a broken snout ring (a character which occurs both in hondurensis and poloyzona) and because polyzona is a rarer taxon in Europe and commands a higher price. Although this information must have dealt a severe blow to the aspirations of being the first to breed albino polyzona in this country, Brian Barczyk, the gentleman that he is, graciously accepted our findings and in a sense was glad that any speculation regarding the origin of the 'polyzona' was put to rest."

Terry,

There is a problem with the credibility of Helmut Hansen as the source of verification on the Hortenbach colony history. At the time the article was written, I have no doubt that Louis Porras believed that Helmut was a trustworthy individual. I had contact with Helmut prior to 1994 (he was a customer) that was one of the very few times I have experienced in the business that was less than favorable. I believe that Louis later found that work with Helmut was not ideal, but you would have to confirm that with Louis.

I do contend after it is all said and done that at the time (1994) the "industry" wanted the albino strain to be Honduran Milk Snakes, therefore they are Honduran Milk Snakes.

Steve Osborne
PROFESSIONAL BREEDERS

I gave Rainer a hard time about the idea that "a lot of people say so" constituting evidence to support a position. So when i saw today's Blondie comic strip, poking fun at my position instead of Rainer's, i thought it only fair to post it here...

terry