Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have heard many times of Bateaters, and 75% burm x 25% Retic. Has anyone ever tried to breed an Albino Bateater. You know, albino Burm and Albino Retic. Are the two albino genes even compatible??? I have been thinking about this for a while, and have never got around to posting it. Hopefully someone here can help me out.

Thanks

There have been a couple albino 75% burm on the classifieds, but they usually don't show as many of the hybrid traits, they seem to look more like a pure Burm. I don't think anyone's bred a 50/50 albino yet, but it is in the works with a couple breeders.

I seriously doubt that the albino gene in burmese and the albino gene in retics would or could merge into a compatible albino gene in a bateater. I would think that the offspring of a breeding of an albino retic and an albino burmese would all be 50% pos het for albino burmese, and all 50% pos het for albino retic, but not necesarily the in the same snake. Some would likely have one, or the other het trait, or none, and some may have both. But I don't think the albino genes would combine to show in the offspring. Even different retic albinos from different wild origins are not compatible.

However,.. perhaps a bateater het albino burmese that is 25% burmese, bred to a bateater het albino burmese that is 75% burmese, might make an albino bateater. Or most especially,. a bat het for both bred to a bat het for both,.. probably couldn't go wrong.

No one will know until it's done. Me personally,.. the risk of failure is such this year/season that I don't feel I want to waste an albino female (laby, patternless, granite) on the dice roll. But next year I will try this long term, multi-generation project when I have many more females to easily conduct perepheral, high risk projects. Without question.

>>I have heard many times of Bateaters, and 75% burm x 25% Retic. Has anyone ever tried to breed an Albino Bateater. You know, albino Burm and Albino Retic. Are the two albino genes even compatible??? I have been thinking about this for a while, and have never got around to posting it. Hopefully someone here can help me out.
>>
>>Thanks
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

Could you explain your resoning why the bateater would be 50 poss het albino in both cases? I understand that if you breed a albino (retic or burm) to a normal, all of your offspring would be 100% het albino. Why would it be different in a bateater? Maybe I am just unaware of how the genes would be different in bateaters.

My bad,. you're absolutely right. I had just woken up and hadn't had my first green tea of the day. I was thinking het to normal there. Yes, they would all be 100% double het for both albino genes. (probably)

>>Could you explain your resoning why the bateater would be 50 poss het albino in both cases? I understand that if you breed a albino (retic or burm) to a normal, all of your offspring would be 100% het albino. Why would it be different in a bateater? Maybe I am just unaware of how the genes would be different in bateaters.
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

So if you breed the first generation offspring together, assuming they are fertile, then your second generation, hypothetically, would be albino bateaters? Am I correct in assuming that? All this genetics stuff is giving me a headache, but DAMN I LOVE TALKING ABOUT IT!!!!

I KNOW! I love it too but it can sometimes get a little confusing. Especially when one gets into double het this to double het that and into incredibly low percentage increments.

But yes, theoretically you should get a batch of both traits. Like half with the burmese-type albinism, and half with the retic-type albinism, each should be het for the other albinism. (I think, lol)

Christ,.. now you are making me want to try it this year, lol!

>>So if you breed the first generation offspring together, assuming they are fertile, then your second generation, hypothetically, would be albino bateaters? Am I correct in assuming that? All this genetics stuff is giving me a headache, but DAMN I LOVE TALKING ABOUT IT!!!!
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

I think my next call is gonna be Bob Clark to see if he has any albino female retics. I have the albino male burm. Would it be better to have male burm, female retic, or male retic female burm? What would be your preference? This could be a long project, but think about the benefits of being the first to produce an albino Bateater? That would kick so much @$$. I think I am gonna try in over the next few years. How difficult would it be to produce Bateaters? Would you cycle the animals just like you would to produce burms? Or are the cyclings different for each animal?

Think about the possibilities, Albino Granite Bateaters, Super Tiger Bateaters, the possibilities are limitless. Maybe eventually a Leucistic Bateater!!!!! Kick @$$!!!!

God I love GENETICS!!!!!!!!

Without question it would be better to have the male albino retic and female albino burms. And here are the myriad reasons why:

First of all,.. males cost the same as females, so are roughly the same investment in terms of finance, but can be used in 1 year to breed, versus 2 1/2 to 3 minimum for females due to size requirements.

Secondly, with a male you can use him to breed other females such as tigers, supers, additional albino burmese females, all of which are relatively cheap.

Third, if you had a female albino retic it would be foolish to waste her ovaries on a gamble. If you get a female albino retic, make more albino retics. Go with a sure thing when you have something that valuable. It's easier and cheaper to get a male albino retic and a bunch of really afforable albino burm females (average 200 to 400 each for adults) and possibly some tiger females het albino or adult tigers to make het babies. It's a win-win-win situation this way.

Cycle the burms and mildly cycle the retics (not crucial, but what does it hurt?). Definitely have a mature female retic on hand if the male retic should need additional olfactory stimulation to breed. This if he shows little to no interest in the female burmese.

Good luck on all of your breeding.

>>I think my next call is gonna be Bob Clark to see if he has any albino female retics. I have the albino male burm. Would it be better to have male burm, female retic, or male retic female burm? What would be your preference? This could be a long project, but think about the benefits of being the first to produce an albino Bateater? That would kick so much @$$. I think I am gonna try in over the next few years. How difficult would it be to produce Bateaters? Would you cycle the animals just like you would to produce burms? Or are the cyclings different for each animal?
>>
>>Think about the possibilities, Albino Granite Bateaters, Super Tiger Bateaters, the possibilities are limitless. Maybe eventually a Leucistic Bateater!!!!! Kick @$$!!!!
>>
>>God I love GENETICS!!!!!!!!
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

Very obvious rational. That makes total sense. Thanks for the info, very helpful.

Good luck with your breeding as well. Whether it be Bateaters or not.

Jason

Check with Mike Wilbanks for a male albino. I have only dealt with him once, but I was very happy with that one deal and I have heard tremendous things about him as a whole. He also is more flexible on prices than others in this industry that tend to be a bit greedy.

>>Very obvious rational. That makes total sense. Thanks for the info, very helpful.
>>
>>Good luck with your breeding as well. Whether it be Bateaters or not.
>>
>>Jason
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

I will do that. Thanks for the advice.

Jason

>I seriously doubt that the albino gene in burmese and the albino gene in retics would or could merge into a compatible albino gene in a bateater.

OTOH, people have crossed tyrosinase negative albino black rat snakes with amelanistic corns (also tyrosinase negative) and gotten babies that lack melanin. That's a species cross, like the bateater. And a guy I used to work for crossed an albino ringneck dove with an albino pigeon, and the only baby they raised was an albino. That was a generic cross, not a species cross. Based on these, I think that it is POSSIBLE to get albino babies from crossing an albino retic with an albino Burm. The only way to know is to cross them and see. And if there are two incompatible albino mutant genes in one or the other species, it might take tries with all combinations of mutants to pick the albino mutant in the Burm that is compatible with one of the albino mutants in the retic.

Paul Hollander

Thanks Paul, that sounds very promising. I think due to this bit of information I shall toss an extra alibino patternless to one of my albino male retics this season,.. see what happens.

P.S. What is "OTOH"?

>>>I seriously doubt that the albino gene in burmese and the albino gene in retics would or could merge into a compatible albino gene in a bateater.
>>
>>OTOH, people have crossed tyrosinase negative albino black rat snakes with amelanistic corns (also tyrosinase negative) and gotten babies that lack melanin. That's a species cross, like the bateater. And a guy I used to work for crossed an albino ringneck dove with an albino pigeon, and the only baby they raised was an albino. That was a generic cross, not a species cross. Based on these, I think that it is POSSIBLE to get albino babies from crossing an albino retic with an albino Burm. The only way to know is to cross them and see. And if there are two incompatible albino mutant genes in one or the other species, it might take tries with all combinations of mutants to pick the albino mutant in the Burm that is compatible with one of the albino mutants in the retic.
>>
>>Paul Hollander
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

...I think.

Judy

Assuming this is the same Judy that I know,... is this your first post in this forum? If so, I think that's great. Keep up the posting (but don't stop emailing)

>>...I think.
>>
>>Judy
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

Thanks Paul. That bit of info makes me feel better that it may happen, IF BRIAN DOES NOT DO IT FIRST. I think I will try it next season and see what happens.

Brian, good luck if you do it. Let me know what happens.

Jason

lol. Thanks for the best wishes. But it is such a long shot project I would be really really lucky if I succeeded with just one pair of breeders in the project. For something of this magnitude, odds-wise,. it would be prudent to have maybe 10 pairs of tics & burms to have any real hopes of having this pan out. And I just don't have that many extra albino gals yet plus which most of my adult female burms are already gravid. The only two that aren't gravid yet are an albino laby and an albino patternless, both of which were held back a bit as they were too small for breeding (9-10 ft). But now they are just about ready and I figure I can devote one to try this project. As laby's are a tad scarce I decided to use the patternless. Still, if I see no breeding or ovulation by February I shall let her breed with her own kind.

>>Thanks Paul. That bit of info makes me feel better that it may happen, IF BRIAN DOES NOT DO IT FIRST. I think I will try it next season and see what happens.
>>
>>Brian, good luck if you do it. Let me know what happens.
>>
>>Jason
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

n/p

>>n/p
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

n/p

The hereditary game is purely speculative with this cross (in my opinion)...until proven. But, i am not a big fan of hybrids so I wouldn't even want to venture a guess and would like to see folks work on producing quality, geographically oriented pure bloodlines of burms, retics, rocks, indians, etc....but that is a very tough task at the very least.