Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The recent posts about the pstels and such have me wndering. I know that the pastels show a recessive trait of clearnails with the whiteish washedout look that gave them they're name now. Also that the hypoirristic trait is recessive and that the Leusistic trait is recessive as well. Are these the only recessive traits that are being worked with or available to us at this time? I know that the albinos tha twere produced in Australia are now dead.
Also, is the hypo trait co-dominate? If the hypo dragons don't produce the black like normals or other colored dragons produce I am confused as to why there seem to be so many dragons labeled "hypo". Are these just siblings to the true hypo animals? It would make since if hte hypo trait was codom that some people might confuse these dragons as being true hypos. Also, this would make since where "snows" are concerned kinda of a super-hypo if you will? Which makes me wander if the snows that derive from clutches of normal dragons are truely the dominate or superhypos and the ones that produce more black are codominate hypos that produce more black color because they are not "true" hypos? Are there any other codominate traits being worked with to date?
Also, I am assuming that the color traits are polygenic (i think that is the correct term). This type of trait can actually be bred out over a period of a few generations if not bred back into colored traits of the same nature. At least this is what I understood from a boa breeder that is breeding "pastels". WOuld the same apply to dragons?
There just doesn't seem to be enough info on the genetic traits available. Maybe I'm way off base here with some of this so I hope someone can clear this up for me. It does just seem so cut and dry in the boa world with the info readily available to everyone. Since there seem to be more traits popping up within the beardie community it just makes sense to me to get the info on these traits out there so people can better use them in thier breeding projects. JMO Thanks in advance for any info you can offer!

Robert Wood

To try and clairfy some of your questions and outline what is "THOUGHT" in the industry. NOT all agree with this, but this what is held by the majority of people (I think)

First, as far as I know, what are called leucistic is NOT a recessive trait, we have yet to see it bred true. At this time I consider them (until someone can show they bred true) light color, snow or hypo's dragons

Clear nails do appear to be a recessive trait. And to be classified as Hypo, they should show this trait.

Pastels have come to mean dragons showing pastel colors such as the yellows, lavenders, cremes, mints and peach colors... but they can also have color in their nails (this may not be what was first intended in the ones named that, but it is what is considered now). As such, you may have pastel parents, that had offspring that show dark colors, as it is in their genetics.

I know that the albinos that were produced in Australia are now dead.

You know that the ones produced and photographed in Australia were reported dead.... I for one do not believe that, I think they are alive and here in the US.
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www.reptilerooms.com

"You know that the ones produced and photographed in Australia were reported dead.... I for one do not believe that, I think they are alive and here in the US."

Are they living with Elvis and Tu Pac? (Sorry, home with the flu and being silly !)
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Stacey

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www.reptilerooms.com

Well it would be nice if they were but.... For now they are reported dead right? hehehehe.......

As far as I know there are only 3 traits that can be classified as recessive in bearded dragons and none have been proven to be codominant or dominant. One is hypomelanism, in my experience if it doesn't have clear claws it is not technically hypomelanistic. Animals that are light colored with dark claws still have the ability to display the dark colors produced by melanin. The second is the new hypoirristic (transulcents) which is a reduction in the amount of white present. The 3rd would be what is called leucistic. These animals are exactly the opposite of the translucents. They are hyperirristic (having excessive white). All 3 of these traits seem to be displayed similarly, meaning there are different degrees to which the mutations are displayed. In the so called leucistics this would account for the lack of pure white animals.
Generally the red, yellows & oranges are a hereditary trait, but it's not impossible to say that there may be some animals out there that are recessive for hyperaxanthicism (not sure if I spelled that right) which is having excessive reds, yellows and/or oranges. I also do not believe that the albinos hatched in Australia are dead. I personally believe they are somewhere in Europe and we will probably see them here in the US in the next 5-8 years.
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Paul Morlock
of CaptiveCreations and
Retial Sales Rep. for Sandfire Dragon Ranch

would not be hypomelanistic? That they would have to be clear? I know that was the intention when named, but that does not follow the defination of hypomelanistic

My understanding that hypomelanistic means lessoned black. So an animal with tan or mixed colors of clear and tan nails and displaying little or no black anywhere would be hypomelanistic.

LOL I just thought of something, I have a gold dragon with lavender, no black anywhere and clear to tan/clear nails that is very active.... would she is a Hypo/Hypo/Hyper dragon?
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www.reptilerooms.com

You're right, hypomelanistic by definition is "having less than normal melanin". Just because an animal displays light does not mean it is hypomelanistic. The difference between a light animal and a hypo is that a light animal can produce but does not always display the dark pigments, where as the hypos are UNABLE to produce normal amounts of malanin. Hypomelanism is also usually a recessive trait. Bearded dragons all have the ability to lighten or darken to some degree. If an animal is healthy and has been given excellent husbandry then it should appear light & colorful most of the time. An animal that displays normal amounts of melanin at ANY given time cannot be considered hypo. As for your animal I would say that is probably is hypo or at least a het. I have noticed that hets tend to have light but not clear nails or sometimes one or two claws that are clear when the rest are not.
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Paul Morlock
of CaptiveCreations and
Retial Sales Rep. for Sandfire Dragon Ranch

hypomelanisism was a co-dominate trait that could also be dominate. Is this only the way it works genetiaclly in boas? Also, I thought that the axanthic trait was a form albinism. Or is this also only credited to another species.
What I'm getting from this is that the way traits work vary from species to species and when a new trait appears it just has to be proved out?
Also I thought that Kevin had proven his leusisitc trait. Or is the argument that it is a from of hypomelanism? Also there have been color traits bred into the "leusistic" trait. Would this be possible if it truly was a leusisitic trait? I thought that leusistic animals were unable to produce any color but white.
Is there any books or websites that I can read to help me understand these traits better?
Thaks for your time and info!!
Robert Wood

If the hets tend to have light but not clear nails that would make the hypomelanistic trait codominant would it not? Ie. codominant red and white alleles in pea plants create pink flowers.

Peter

Geez. I started quite a few different topics when I posted my q about genes. I am still confused about my topic. Would i have orange dragons if I bred a hypo red and citrus dragons from fire and ice dragons?

NO, yes and maybe...... you could and would get a variety if they follow the normal breeding results. You would have no guaratees of any certain color, you may get babies with orange patterns going down the spines, some may be all gold, or all orange....
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www.reptilerooms.com