Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have had a lot of experience with all sorts of reptiles and amphibians in the past and am looking into a bearded dragon. I just have a few questions before I make my dedision
1.) Is a flourescant light really neccessary ( I rea dif you give the bearded dragon Rep-cal calcium with D3 powder and Herptivite powder it will be a fine substitute)
2.) Is sand ok (play sand or the reptile sand sold in pet stores)
3.) Are they friendly or are they like other lizards or geckos that hate being held and run all over the place and are impossible to get out of there enclosure. I want something that will just relax on your shoulder or hand and is personable.

Any answers are helpful. Thanks!

1.) Is a flourescant light really neccessary? I believe that while it may not make an obvious difference, it does make a difference that you may not see like stronger bones. I would recomend a good UV light. The cheap ones are worthless. You must follow instructions for the light to do it's job.

2.) Is sand ok? Yes, washed play sand

3.) Are they friendly? Every lizard has it's own personality. As a general rule they are friendly animals and seem to enjoy socializing with people.

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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

I dont know enough to tell you about the first 2 questions, As well personality, i have not seen a more laid back lizard, and they are very willing to sit around on your shoulder and watch TV. I have yet to see a baby anywhere that didnt tolerate holding well. But there are exceptions I hear. But they arent rated one of the best/if not the best reptiles for nothing.

You're first two questions usually start a huge debate, but here goes anyway...

1.) Is a flourescant light really neccessary ( I read if you give the bearded dragon Rep-cal calcium with D3 powder and Herptivite powder it will be a fine substitute)

***In my opinion, anyone getting their first dragon should supply it with UVB. All my dragons have them for insurance.
The controversy is that with an optimum diet, some feel UVB is not needed. Most people getting their first beardie do not know what exactly what their dragon should be eating.

2.) Is sand ok (play sand or the reptile sand sold in pet stores)

***Absolutely stay away from pet store sand, it has impacted many beardies, even though it says it is digestable, it is NOT. Any particulate substrate has the ability to cause impaction, except for maybe bran flakes. Several of us have been using a shelfliner from Walmart, duck brand. It looks nice and can be disinfected.

3.) Are they friendly or are they like other lizards or geckos that hate being held and run all over the place and are impossible to get out of there enclosure. I want something that will just relax on your shoulder or hand and is personable.

***Most beardeds are very docile as they grow in to udalthood. Babies can be pretty skittish. The more you handle them, they more they trust you.
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www.classylizard.com

Forgot to answer your sand question. You want to stay away from silica based sand. Some play sands are silica based so you have to check the package. We use playsand that we screen and wash well before using as well as a great sand made by Zoo Med. We mix the two together. The Zoo Med Repti Sand is my favorite. We just use so much sand it gets expensive when you have as many dragons as we have. The Zoo Med Repti Sand is very nice and fine. One of the finest I have seen and it clumps well for cage cleaning. King of like cleaning a cat litter box. Use as small fish net to scoop areas that need sifting and cleaning. You are safe with a very fine grain sand. Impactions can happen with any substrate but much less liekly if you use the correct sand in the correct manner.

WE DO NOT put dragons younger than 5 months old on any sand or other substrates. DO NOT USE GROUND WALNUT SHELLS OR LIZARD LITTERS. We use paper towels for good hygiene, easy to change out and safe on the babies. I have found that people who use lizard litters end up with dragons with poor muscles in the legs of the dragons and they are weak because many of the litters slide out from under the dragons feet when they try to walk. Good solid sand substrate is the best when they are old enough.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

Just curious here, but what's wrong with the crushed walnut shell substrate (ESU Lizard Litter)? I don't use it any more, but when I got my first dragon that is what I used, and never had any problems with it...

If a dragon were to ingest enough of it, walnut shells aren't digestable.
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www.classylizard.com

Wouldn't this be the same case as sand though? If they were to eat enough sand that would be the same case, although the crushed walnut shells are a little larger then grains of sand...

The problem with crushed walnut is two fold. 1) the broken shells are very sharp and can cut the digestive tract as it moves through and 2) because of the right angles, the pieces can and will lock together and cause an obstuction.

Fine grain or well rounded play sand will not do this. You need to stay away from any Calcium based sands. Calcium is a base, stomach fluids are acids. If they ingest the Ca sand, it changes the pH levels reducing the acidity and they cannot digest anything. It them collects in the stomach and intestines causing impaction.

Washed play sand or natural sands are small bits of larger rocks that have eroded over time, leaving the hardest materials as sand. The main mineral component of sand is quartz of which the chemical composition is SiO2 or Silicon Dioxide. Quartz is not digestable and fine rounded grains will pass through a healthy dragon with no problems.

Acceptable substrates are:

alfalfa pellets
bran
washed play sand

Your dragon should be at least 8 inches before you put them on playsand.

The best sands to use are the all natural no additives reptile sands or washed and screened non-silica based play sand.

We use ZOO MED Repti-Sand. It is all natural no additives. We do not buy into the advertising gimics and garbage these companies try to sell people on about calcium infused sands, calci-sand.

Would you tell your kids to eat a good breakfast and on the way to the bus be sure to lick the ground to get their multivitamins? I don't think so. '

All vitamins and minerals for dragons should come from their foods. Not going around belieiving that a calci sand is going to HELP your dragon. And then they try to say "Well in case your dragon eats the sand (even though they shouldn't) we have added things good for your dragon" This Is A Bunch of Garbage. Calcium is supposed to come from greens, veggies, suppliment dusting powde and not from the substrate.

I think of this as just another one of those advertising promos to get peoples money, kind of like the heat rocks reptiles SHOULD NOT USE, then why make them at all? Because they want you to spend your money on junk you don't need so they can get your money.

Alfalfa Pellets can be used but if not kept clean can mold and cause respiratory infections from the molds.

Paper Towels or newspaper is best for youngsters until they mature and are better on target at catching crickets accurately and until they are eating larger crickets that are easier to see and catch.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

I am curious, what exactly are you speaking of when you say "silica based sands" and what exactly is the problem with them?

If you read on the bag it should tell you what the sand is derived from.

I know for a fact that in our area (Atlanta GA) Home Depot and Lowes both sell play sand. One of them, (Husband goes to buy it so I think he said it was Home Depot sand is silica based) while the other one is not.

It is what the sand is made from. I don't know the science behind it except that everything that I have read says to stay away from silica based sands.

Maybe someone else here on the board can explain exactly what the differences are in the two play sands and what the silica is.

My husband always says just read the bag and it should tell you.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

Well, if it isn't silica based (which means it has quartz in it) then what is it based? Limestone? Calcite?...these are both calcium carbonate. Is there another type of sand out there?

As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with the type of play sand that containes quartz (which by the way is all natural). Quartz is not soluble in any kind of acid and as long as it is small enough, it will pass through the digestive tract if ingested. It is the large particles, jagged interlocking pieces and calcium carbonate (which changes the pH) that cause impaction. Especially if any element of husbandry is off.

SiO2 (quartz) is very stable at surface temperatures and pressure and is very resistent to fracture, which is why it is the main component in all "naturally occuring" sands.

It sounds to me like someone mistook "Silica" for "Silicone" (as in breast implants) and ran with it.

I got this information from several articles on bearded dragons as well as several books on bearded dragons. There is a difference, I AM NOT A CHEMIST. If you choose to ignore this information then so be it. But you are not suppose to use silica based sands and there is a difference. What harm is it in buying the non-silica based sands to listen to the word of caution. There are plenty of play sands out there that are NOT silica based.

NO I DID NOT MISTAKE SILICA WITH SILICONE.

I am doing you a favor spending my time educating you if you choose to insult me by saying I must be thinking of silicone breast implants then I won't waste my valuable time trying share my knowledge and share information.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

I think what you are talking about is sands with high silica content that are used for industrial purposes, such as glass making and foundry casting. Playsands can contain some silica, but you can find silica free. Either would be fine, as the amounts are small. I think what you have read is talking about staying away from sans meant for industrial use. By the way, silica can be toxic if inhaled constantly, but again it would likely have to be exposure to a sand with high silica content.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

Undigestible, large pieces compared to sand drains

I have seen people with dragons on them and the dragons are not abile to get good traction when they walk and their legs slide around as though they are going to come out from under them. Leds to poor muscle tone and bone growth in the legs.

Not as absorbent and easy to clean as the sand substrates either

VERY VERY BAD STUFF
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

MUST HAVE UVA and UVB as well as heat. You can get this in an all in one bulb that is not flourescent. It is called a Mercury Vapor Active UV Heat bulb. Looks like a flood light style bulb that puts out 40 times more UVB rays that flourescent bulbs. Beardies need lots of UVB as well as good UVA.

If you were told or read that calcium with D3 and herptivite is a substitute you were told wrong. UVB is needed to aid in the conversion of calcium and metabolizing, as well as for digestion, bone growth, liver function as well as overall health, vigor and color. See a post a good ways down the page I did about 4 days ago in response to someone asking about Lighting requirements. I went into long detail. Education reading.

They are very sweet creatures with lots of personaility and the more you hold them and have them involved in what you are doing the more they will bond with you. They are the perfect family pet and are non-aggressive. Not shy and very attentive.

Hope this helps.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com