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A member made a comment on one of my last posts saying Mercury Vapor bulbs included both UVB and UVA in one bulb. I just wanted to know if anyone else knows about these and if they are okay to use to provide both rays all in one. What are some good companies that make them?

I have only used the t-rex brand. They work really well. Although I did have to send one back twice because of defects, but since then I have not had any problems. I would think that the bulbs made by zoo-med would also be good, but I have never used them. If you go with one of the powersun's (zoomed) let me know what you think. Later, Jake
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From what I understnad that two major contenders in MVB are Zoo-Med Capture The Sun and the Powersun. I've used both and have had less problems with the CTS. In fact I just bought two more of them from bigappleherp.com.

what about the ESU Super Uv coil bulbs?

The ESU bulb is great bulb but does not fit into the category of Mercury Vapor All In One Bulbs. It is a flourescent bulb that contains very good levesl of UVA and UVB but does not produce any heat. You have to use a basking bulb in addition to the ESU Supercoil bulb.

We use the ESU bulbs along with a basking bulb on all of our 10 gallon enclosures because the Mercury Vapor Bulbs are to large and to strong for small enclosures.

WE highly recommend the ESU SuperCoil UV 20 Watt (equevelant to 75 wattage light output) but since it does not put out basking type of heat we recommend using a Zoo Med 75 watt basking bulb with it on 10 gallon tanks. If using it on a larger tank then use a 1000 Watt basking bulb.

By far the best Mercury Vapor Bulb on the market is the TRex Active UV Heat. They have the best lens that does not obstruct the UVrays and the best reflective design.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

Zoo Med makes the PowerSun but I have had people tell me they have problems with them blowing out.

TRex makes the Active UV Heat and that is the bulb we use on all of our enclosures that are 20 gallon long size and bigger. Smaller tanks such as 10 and 15 gallon tanks are too small for this bulb because the smallest wattage they come in is 100 watt, recommend using the flood style and not the spot. Need a really big keeping area to use the spot bulbs.

These are the best on the market and provide up to 40 times more UVB than the regular flourscent tube bulbs designed for reptiles.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

Has anyone ever heard of the ESU Super UV coil lights that provide both UVB and UVA?

You must have typed this at the same time I was typing about the ESU Supercoil UV Bulbs. Read post listed above.

Great Bulb but it works diferently than the Mercury Vapor Bulbs.

They are used in different ways, read above.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

>>A member made a comment on one of my last posts saying Mercury Vapor bulbs included both UVB and UVA in one bulb. I just wanted to know if anyone else knows about these and if they are okay to use to provide both rays all in one. What are some good companies that make them?

one made by a reptile manufacturer.

The animal products manufacturers rip people off when it comes to incandescent basking bulbs that are only for heat. Don't be fooled into buying them.

Just go to your local hardware and buy a regular bulb. If you want you can even buy a halogen that will produce more heat than an incandescent. They have both in spot or flood.
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Rob

Incandescent bulbs from the hardware store (household bulbs) offer nothing but heat. They do not offer your dragon any UVA or UVB output. Don't get this confused with the information provided in the rest of these posts on this thread. If you are going to use a Mercury Vapor Bulb (TRex, ZooMed or the others) they already provide heat so there is no need to use any additional bulbs. These are known to be an all in one bulb (Heat, UVA and UVB).

Household light bulbs will not provide your dragon with anything other than heat so you must use another source to provide UVA and UVB. The basking bulbs sold at reptile stores DO CONTAIN UVA in them and therefore provide some of the needs of your dragon but they do not contain the UVB which you must get from a supplemental source such as flourscent tubes or from the new ESU Super Coil UV which is a great bulb but ESU Super Coil does not offer heat. In this case you can use either a reptile basking bulb or a household bulb. We prefer to use the repitle basking bulbs because they do provide additional UVA.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

>>Incandescent bulbs from the hardware store (household bulbs) offer nothing but heat. They do not offer your dragon any UVA or UVB output. Don't get this confused with the information provided in the rest of these posts on this thread. If you are going to use a Mercury Vapor Bulb (TRex, ZooMed or the others) they already provide heat so there is no need to use any additional bulbs. These are known to be an all in one bulb (Heat, UVA and UVB).
>>
>>Household light bulbs will not provide your dragon with anything other than heat so you must use another source to provide UVA and UVB. The basking bulbs sold at reptile stores DO CONTAIN UVA in them and therefore provide some of the needs of your dragon but they do not contain the UVB which you must get from a supplemental source such as flourscent tubes or from the new ESU Super Coil UV which is a great bulb but ESU Super Coil does not offer heat. In this case you can use either a reptile basking bulb or a household bulb. We prefer to use the repitle basking bulbs because they do provide additional UVA.
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>>www.georgiabeardeddragons.com
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>>

I don't know if there is or not but I do know it doesn't take a special glass or filament to produce the UVA that is claimed in the reptile manufacturer's bulbs. UVB, on the other hand, as you already know, is a different issue.

I just want it made clear the reptile bulbs that are incandescent are rip-offs and do not provide any additional benefits compared to those bought in a hardware store other than their claimed UVA which, as I'm sure you probably know, very well could be another marketing gimmick.

By gimmick I don't mean an untruth but something that is pointed out that is a given. IE, a deoderant that claims to be anti-bacterial is trying to appeal to a health conscience society as something special while in reality all deoderants are anti-bacterial because it's the bacteria that causes the odor.

FYI, my 160 PowerSun has not produced enough heat in my 75 gal. aquarium to bring the basking spot to 105 degrees so I had to use a halogen as a supplement. Do I buy a Zoomed for $16.00 or a Zenith for $5.99? I bought the Zoomed and it lasted for 4 mos. I replaced it with the Zenith and see no difference in the activity or health of my dragon.

That's just my two cents, though. If you have evidence to back up the UVA claim please let me know about it.
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Rob

>>>>Incandescent bulbs from the hardware store (household bulbs) offer nothing but heat. They do not offer your dragon any UVA or UVB output. Don't get this confused with the information provided in the rest of these posts on this thread. If you are going to use a Mercury Vapor Bulb (TRex, ZooMed or the others) they already provide heat so there is no need to use any additional bulbs. These are known to be an all in one bulb (Heat, UVA and UVB).
>>>>
>>>>Household light bulbs will not provide your dragon with anything other than heat so you must use another source to provide UVA and UVB. The basking bulbs sold at reptile stores DO CONTAIN UVA in them and therefore provide some of the needs of your dragon but they do not contain the UVB which you must get from a supplemental source such as flourscent tubes or from the new ESU Super Coil UV which is a great bulb but ESU Super Coil does not offer heat. In this case you can use either a reptile basking bulb or a household bulb. We prefer to use the repitle basking bulbs because they do provide additional UVA.
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>>>>www.georgiabeardeddragons.com
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>>>>
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>>I don't know if there is or not but I do know it doesn't take a special glass or filament to produce the UVA that is claimed in the reptile manufacturer's bulbs. UVB, on the other hand, as you already know, is a different issue.
>>
>>I just want it made clear the reptile bulbs that are incandescent are rip-offs and do not provide any additional benefits compared to those bought in a hardware store other than their claimed UVA which, as I'm sure you probably know, very well could be another marketing gimmick.
>>
>>By gimmick I don't mean an untruth but something that is pointed out that is a given. IE, a deoderant that claims to be anti-bacterial is trying to appeal to a health conscience society as something special while in reality all deoderants are anti-bacterial because it's the bacteria that causes the odor.
>>
>>FYI, my 160 PowerSun has not produced enough heat in my 75 gal. aquarium to bring the basking spot to 105 degrees so I had to use a halogen as a supplement. Do I buy a Zoomed for $16.00 or a Zenith for $5.99? I bought the Zoomed and it lasted for 4 mos. I replaced it with the Zenith and see no difference in the activity or health of my dragon.
>>
>>That's just my two cents, though. If you have evidence to back up the UVA claim please let me know about it.
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>>Rob

stuff when it comes to animals. We as humans cause enough problems for animals in terms of habitat loss and removal from the wild and as far as I'm concerned those who intentionally try to make money off the conscience of an uninformed or misled keeper can rot in hell.

That's the main reason I have challenged you in your claims. That's not to insinuate any of the above was directed at you. That was more of a vent than anything else. Wether I'm right or wrong is not a concern of mine. I just want hard facts when claims like that are made so everyone who reads this information can be sure they are not unknowingly contributing to the greedy BS that goes on. And I'm sorry if I offended anyone!!
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Rob

Rob,
I think your rant is justified.
I used to frequent this forum and got burnt out about a year ago. I recently came back and can't believe the amount of mis-information that is floating around.
You are absolutely correct in that a basking spot lamp for a reptile doesn't have anything any more special than an incandescent spot light for your home. They both emitt UVA or heat. It seems there are some people in here that don't understand the science behind the methods and aren't asking any questions, just repeating mis-information.
We have used both reptile basking spot bulbs and incandescent spot bulbs for heating purposes. The only thing I have noticed is that the reptile bulbs seem to last a little longer in most cases. Halogen spot lamps will actually give off more heat with lower wattage, making them more economical if you have multiple enclosures.
UVB is another thing altogether and I have been hearing some interesting things from people who use UVB meters to measure some of the different bulb outputs. So interesting I think I may have to get a meter myself.

Wendy
Scales Premium Exotic Reptiles

The Reptile Basking light bulbs that you buy in a pet store ARE different than what you buy in a hardware store or use as a househld bulb. The design of the reptile basking bulbs have double reflector design that focuses 35% more light and heat than regular incandescent bulbs.

I am not propagating misinformation. The information I have been OFFERING TO HELP is coming from documentation.

I don't have to prove anything to you. I am a very successful breeder and produce beautiful healthy animals by going above and beyond most.

People can choose to take my advice and make their own decisions. The time I spend on this forum is not to get into a debate with you or anyone else but to offer valuable input on what works for us.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

House hold "spot" lights do the same thing. They use relfective material to concentrate both the light and heat in one spot. And they do emitt UVA radiation.

I certainly did not mean to upset you and no, you don't have to debate me either. I was really more interested in where you got your information from. I would be inclined to investigate the source myself. But that question was never answered.

However, a healthy discussion with open exchange of ideas to increase your knowledge is prudent for any breeder no matter if they have just come on to the scene or been here awhile.

Wendy
Scales Premium Exotic Reptiles

>>The Reptile Basking light bulbs that you buy in a pet store ARE different than what you buy in a hardware store or use as a househld bulb. The design of the reptile basking bulbs have double reflector design that focuses 35% more light and heat than regular incandescent bulbs.
>>
>>I am not propagating misinformation. The information I have been OFFERING TO HELP is coming from documentation.
>>
>>I don't have to prove anything to you. I am a very successful breeder and produce beautiful healthy animals by going above and beyond most.
>>
>>People can choose to take my advice and make their own decisions. The time I spend on this forum is not to get into a debate with you or anyone else but to offer valuable input on what works for us.
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>>www.georgiabeardeddragons.com
>>
>>

become hostile and defensive when it is politely questioned your credibility won't last long here. In my opinion yes, you do have something to prove here. I've never heard of Georgia Bearded Dragons but that's not to say I'm inclined not to give you the benefit of the doubt. I was simply asking you to back up the statement you made about reptile bulbs.

You seem to have a lot to offer people in this forum. Please don't let your pride get in the way and risk your credibility here. Show us some evidence of statements you express to be the facts when asked and then you will be helping. Until then your facts that are in question will be null and void and challenged every time you state them. I guarantee it.
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Rob

>>Rob,
>>I think your rant is justified.
>>I used to frequent this forum and got burnt out about a year ago. I recently came back and can't believe the amount of mis-information that is floating around.
>>You are absolutely correct in that a basking spot lamp for a reptile doesn't have anything any more special than an incandescent spot light for your home. They both emitt UVA or heat. It seems there are some people in here that don't understand the science behind the methods and aren't asking any questions, just repeating mis-information.
>>We have used both reptile basking spot bulbs and incandescent spot bulbs for heating purposes. The only thing I have noticed is that the reptile bulbs seem to last a little longer in most cases. Halogen spot lamps will actually give off more heat with lower wattage, making them more economical if you have multiple enclosures.
>>UVB is another thing altogether and I have been hearing some interesting things from people who use UVB meters to measure some of the different bulb outputs. So interesting I think I may have to get a meter myself.
>>
>>Wendy
>>Scales Premium Exotic Reptiles

very glad I did. One of my MV's isn't putting out but 3(somethin') at the distance I have it. I made some changes and now know my beardie is getting the UVB he needs. In my opinion it is worth the money!
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Rob

Rob, that is great you could do that. What I have been hearing is that there is really quite a variation in the amount as well as the longevity of some of the bulbs out there.
We use both the reptisun 5.0's and the mercury vapor with our animals and find that some do very well and some not quite as well. If this wide variation is true, it would explain a few things. Also, knowing the longevity can save all of us tons of money in the long run.
If you wouldn't mind sending me an email and letting me know where you got yours along with statistical information, I would really appreciate it.

Wendy
Scales Premium Exotic Reptiles

>>Rob, that is great you could do that. What I have been hearing is that there is really quite a variation in the amount as well as the longevity of some of the bulbs out there.
>>We use both the reptisun 5.0's and the mercury vapor with our animals and find that some do very well and some not quite as well. If this wide variation is true, it would explain a few things. Also, knowing the longevity can save all of us tons of money in the long run.
>>If you wouldn't mind sending me an email and letting me know where you got yours along with statistical information, I would really appreciate it.
>>
>>Wendy
>>Scales Premium Exotic Reptiles

For statistical info you can go to www.beautifuldragons.com and read some of her test results. Great site!

You can go into Yahoo groups for some additional info.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Meter_Owners/

Hope this helps!!
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Rob

UVA = heat
Yes you can use a regular light bulb you get at the store for heat. I would suggest getting a Halongen spot light. Just keep in mind that is will not last as long as a basking spot bulb because it was made with a different purpose in mind.

Wendy
Scales Premium Exotic Reptiles

I hate this argument. You state it like it is a life and death situation with no proof to back it up. Most on this forum know my opinion, some don't believe it others do. UVA has not been shown to be needed. Also I am pretty damn sure that everylight out there produces UVA. A halogen bulb is a halogen bulb that is it. The $16 reptile ones are the same as the ones at home depot for $5 both use the same type of tube. Incadescent filaments are also the same between a $6 reptile basking bulb and a $1 house bulb. Halogens put out a much nicer (brighter) light than any reptile basking bulb, hands down. The zoo med basking bulbs? Garbage, they burn out and produce a horrible color of light. A halogen produces a nice bright white light like fluoros do. Durability, nothing beats a phillips halogen. Don't even argue that. You can drop them over and over and over again and the darn things will not break. You will break the glass before it burns out. Drop any reptile bulb even the halogens and they are done for. The light is reflected down by reptile bulbs. Go look at a halogen flood all light is directed down. Also that is what a clamp lamp is for. Merc Vapors are the worst things in the world as far as durability go. You better not look at them cross eyed or they will go dead. They tend to flicker at times also. The high noon bulbs or whatever they are from nature's zone have been shown to produce no UVB right out of the box. Yep those are worth the $22, no UVB and they don't direct light down. Those bulbs are plain old security lights repacked as reptile bulbs. They are merc vapors but they are not UVB producing ones, my conclusion garbage. The basis of this rant is that light intensity is the important feature to lighting. UVB is a whole other debate. I will get into that but hear is my disclaimer first. I DO NOT advocate that anyone should stop using UVB lighting because of what I am saying. The choice to not use UVB is my choice as I believe it is unnecesary. If you believe it is neccesary by all means continue to use it. Ok with that said. The bulk of the bulbs out there for reptiles that people think produce sufficient UVB are bunk!!! There are probably 5 bulbs that produce over 10 uW/cm/cm (3 merc vapors and 2 fluoro tubes and 10 seems to be the standard min) there are probably 50 brand bulbs out there that imply they produce UVB. The fluoro tubes to me are pretty risky. Your dragon has to be within 12 inches of them. And they put out 1/10th of the light they would see in the wild (and that is a very conservative number). so for every 1 hour in the wild it is like 10 hours spent within 12" of your UVB tube. That seems pretty odd. You also never know when these bulbs stop producing UVB, unless you have invested a small fortune in a reliable meter. The average keeper does not do this. You can say replace them every 6 months, that may not be adequate they may burn out faster or slower. Merc vapors? Lord only knows what there deal is. After having a bunch for over a year I do not trust those things to function the way they are supposed to. Yeah i know they have a 6 month free replacement and a prorated part after that. But you know what I don't trust your bulb to do what you say if it breaks all the time. That simple in my eyes. And who has time to work, and care for animals but then run to UPS every freaking 2 weeks because one of my merc vapors has burned out. Give me a freaking break. Most people that own dragons get them from pet shops. Most people have no clue how to keep dragons, they listen to the pet shop person. the vast majority of pet shop people know nothing. They don't recomend the right bulbs even if they do people still don't buy the right bulb. So I say most people out there do not provide their dragons with sufficient UVB. I know there is a lot of MBD but I say it is a small group compared to the number of dragons without UVB. I know when i started out I was a moron, I knew nothing about what bulbs produced UVB and the such. I raised dragons and none of them showed signs of MBD none are stunted. Nothing is wrong with any of them. Does UVB have a benefit to a draons health? Yes it does!!! It allows them to produce vitamin D3. Does a dragon NEED UVB to be healthy? NO, not if proper husbandry is practiced. A good supplementation schedule will give them the D3 that they need. It will, obviously herps can get D3 from their diet. Snakes do it. All animals that eat whole prey items do it. They get it from the liver of their prey. Dragons for the most part do not eat whole prey items as a staple. However they can eat crickets that are coated with calcium and vitamin D3. Obviously they should be able to digest it and get benefits from it. So my final conclusion on lighting is you should provide your dragon with the brightest naturalist color of light and the proper temperature gradients, and UVA is secondary, UVB is beneficial, but not a matter of life and death. But even if you provide UVB you better use a good calcium supplement with D3, no where has it been shown that 10 uW/cm/cm is really enough for your dragon to make enough d3 to be healthy and survive. Oh and the article in Reptiles magazine is not a source to refute this, if people stopped buying zoomed bulbs the company would probably fold up. so they have a biased opinion. Sorry for the rant, I am bored at work.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com