Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is a pic of a Florida Brooksi Kingsnake that was given to my by a member of this forum, Jim.

I was under the imperssion that it was a normal Brooks phase king, but after consideration and looking at other pics of normal brooks, I am at a lost as to what this snake actually is...is it a regular brooks? Hypo?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

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0.0.1 Argentine Black and White Tegu
2.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.4 Hatchling Bearded Dragons
1.1 Honduran Milksnake
1.0 Florida Brooksi Kingsnake
1.0 Blood Red Cornsnake
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.0 Western Hognose Snake
1.0 Bull Mastiff

Hello all,

The following is a close up photograph of my folrida brooksi kingsnake's head. I am concerned that the snake had mouth rot at one point and it hever healed correctly, or am I just worrying too much. The person at my local herp store said it looked like nose rub. The snake has plenty of hiding spots, so I don't see why?

Also, when the snake sheds the area in questions appears to be a "scab" of some sort. But after the shed it appears like yellow dry skin, what do you guys think?

Thank you for your time,
Ralph

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0.0.1 Argentine Black and White Tegu
2.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.4 Hatchling Bearded Dragons
1.1 Honduran Milksnake
1.0 Florida Brooksi Kingsnake
1.0 Blood Red Cornsnake
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.0 Western Hognose Snake
1.0 Bull Mastiff

Very nice Brooksi, a notch above many because the snake has large white patches on his/her sides. The nose area on young kings seems to be forever bruised (worse in males) from pushing and probing every corner of the cage. Beware of screens just for this reason, some will rub their noses raw. Males tend to search a bit too much for females in spring/early summer and your snake will (likely) show even more bruising during that hormonal surge! Will the snake resume a more "perfect" appearance? yes. Will the frantic rubbing ever stop? It will lessen with age but males do go slightly crazy in the spring.
Very nice Brooksi and free to boot! Well done! Jeff

It's not Hypo ....looks like a nice normal to me.

I am from South Florida and have collected (wild), bred and kept Hundreds of Florida and Brooks Kings. Personally, I would not call that a good Brooks as the pattern is way too distinct (especially the sides) at it's present size (around 3' ?). I have seen snakes from the canefields of South Florida and in Davie (Broward Co.) that have very similar patterns and color. The really good Brooks have a very high band count and because of this present a speckled (blended) appearance that makes them look patternless at first glance. There has been arguement that the first Brooks described might have been a "Hypo".The darker bars should be almost invisable in a good mature specimen. The classic HANDBOOK OF SNAKES Wright & Wright 1957 presents a key to Lampropeltis and also (on page 377) an excellent series of b/w photos of it. I recomend this as later volumes were written after the true Brooks became scarce in the wild and the validity of the subspecies was subsiquently overruled, resulting in a wider definition of what they are. Another great color photograph can be found in Pope's book.

I am certain some of the breeders here will argue the point and argue it is good for what is commercialy bred...but hey. I was here in the 70's thru today and when I speak of quality,I am speaking about snakes I picked up off the ground in the wild.

It is a handsome snake, but far from top Brooks or even (Hypo quality)that I am familiar with.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Thanks for the compliments and clearing that up for me guys, guess it's just a normal.

I'm glad to hear that it is just permanent bruising, although this isn't a good thing, it is better that mouth rot...

Thanks again!
Ralph
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0.0.1 Argentine Black and White Tegu
0.0.1 Baby Aru Green Tree Python (Awaiting arrival
2.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.4 Hatchling Bearded Dragons
1.1 Honduran Milksnake
1.0 Florida Brooksi Kingsnake
1.0 Blood Red Cornsnake
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.0 Western Hognose Snake
1.0 Bull Mastiff

"...The really good Brooks have a very high band count and because of this present a speckled (blended) appearance that makes them look patternless at first glance."

I'm with you on that Rearfang. I still prefer the old definition and look of brooksi that meant more than just "light color" or yellow phase. I must admit it is a difficult thing to measure and quantify for taxonomic criteria. Between the muddled terminology of today and the criss-crossing of morphs and localities I wonder if there will be many old type brooksi left even in captivity.
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Lindsay Pike
Urotopia Uromastyx

here is the PIC

How big is it? That it is a Brooks is pretty much on. The small snout is right and the color fading on the darker bands seems to be typical. The best Brooks have lost the bulk of their darker staining by the time they reach 3'. Your only question here is how pale a Brooks will it become?
On page 52 in the book (still in print) FLORIDA'S FABULOUS REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS there are some good pictures of average Brooks.
As earlier stated. there is arguement that the Patternless Brooks first described might have been a hypo and that there may well have been a wild hypo poulation. makes you wish for a time machine so you could go back and recheck.
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

That's one of the problems here. The canal system that was dug in the 1940's sped up the intergradiation between what we call Brooks and the penninsula intergrade. As a result there are still scattered populations as far north as Lake Okeechobee that still have remnants of Brooks color. It is because of this rapid intergration ( and increasing scarcity of Brooks) that later scientists that went looking for Brooks determined that there was not sufficient evidence to support it being a subspecies.
Point in example. Connant, in his origional field guide argues the validity of Brooks. He also mentions a broad band of intergradiation and no mention of a Florida King. In his later issues he keeps the intergrade but identifies Brooks as Florida kings. The thing is there is no clear criteria I have heard of that clearly defines what a "Florida king" is. It is so variable that it's meritistics overlap everything near it. But if you compare a true Brooks to an Eastern Chain, the differance is obvious.
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

As far north as Jacksonville, and in Citrus and Hillsborough Counties, as well as the Kissimmee area, and various other parts of the state. I would suspect the brooksi looking snakes from the Okeechobee area have always been there. Kingsnakes don't seem to be very migratory, there are, or at least were quite a few unique populations throughout the state.

I have heard of a Jacksonville population, but since I have never personally seen one from there I did not mention it. It is possible that the Brooks king once occupied the entire Florida penninsula.
I was reading elsewhere about Brooks being declassified because of DNA testing. My problem with this has to do with the fact that by the time our technology became advanced enough to do such testing prctically all south Florida had been invaded by the intergrade.
I even heard of one fool who turned loose at least two dozen intergrade females at Brooks Canal, in a misguided attempt to save the kings by breeding out their distinctive color. on the other side, I used to find High yellow kings that were the definite result of several Brooks being released in Davie Fla.
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Released over 2 dozen intergrade females at brooks canal? That's backward conservation logic right there... Are there still kings at brooks canal, or was it overcollected? I guess to really know for sure about the subspecific status of Brook's king you'd need a time machine. I know Glades Herp has a line of Brook's Canal Brook's kingsnakes, that may be a pure line, though genetic testing is rather expensive.

There are still occasional Brooks found at the canal, but their genetics are questionable. Turkey Point has an interesting population that tends toward anerythristic specimens. But probably the last true Brooks might be found deep in Everglades national Park (no collecting).
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Here are 2 wildcaught Kings from Jacksonville, FL . Interesting looking Kings I must say. These pics were taken by Kevin Enge.

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Keith Hillson

Man, what are you doing with a gun in space? - Charles "Chick" Chapple

Very interesting....And handsome! Thanks for sharing.
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

wow my brooks is a little bit shorter then your but mine is turning alot more yellow then yours.