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The Great Substrate Debate

Georgia Bearded Dragons Dec 17, 2003 09:24 AM

There are so many discussions going on in this forum about substrates I decided to share what I know to be true and fact and what we know from experience. I will provide several quotes from resource materials just so you know I have not made this stuff up. This is based on the experiences of many others.

Because of the potential risks of sand impactions particularly in babies we choose to initially raise our babies on paper towels. For babies that reach the age of 4-5 months or around 9 inches in length we then use two different types of sands. We use washed/sceened NON SILICA based play sand as well as Zoo Med brand Repti-Sand. This Repti-Sand is all natural no additives and comes in several colors. It is not as cheap as play sand and because we use such a high volume it would not be economical to use just the Zoo Med Repti-sand in our situation but for pet owners we think it is the best you can do for your beardie. It clumps well, is very fine grained and easy to clean. We however must mix it in with the screened and washed non-silica based play sand which does not have as fine a sand grain as the Zoo Med Repti-Sand. We like being able to mix in the dessert red Zoo Med Repti-Sand with the white washed and screened play sand because it makes the crickets easier to find for the dragons because you don't have white dusted crickets running around on white play sand. When mixing the two you get a nice terra cotta pink colored sand that clumps in the poopy spots so you can clean it like a cat litter box.

Play sand is relatively dust-free. Sand is the most easy to clean and maintain substrate. Per The Bearded Dragon Manual "There have been reports of babies becoming seriously ill from intestinal impactions following the ingestion of sands containing calcium." We do not recommend any of the calcium infused sands. A dragon should get all of its nutrients, vitamins and minerals from its food sources not from eating the ground they walk on or ingesting the sand. We do not tell our kids to eat dirt to get their vitamins so why would you expect a calci-sand to provide your dragons with their calcium.

Per The Bearded Dragon Manual: "Avoid unscreened/unwashed sands,particularily unprocessed silica sands because of health risks from inhaling dust lifted by the dragons digging."

Alfalfa Pellets and Rabbit Pellets: They are both absorbent and have drawbacks. Some people develop serious allergies to these and the pellets can let off a strong odor when wet and can crumble turning into dusts that escape the enclosure. There is also risk of four beetle investation. These beetles are harmless but can spread and infest any grain based foods in your home.Alfalfa is also not an adequate substrate to aid your dragon in nail wear. There are also reports from veterniarins that there is a higher incident of respiratory diesease and infections in lizards that have been kept on alfalfa pettelts and rabbit pellets. These pellets quickly mold when they become wet and dragons can inhale the mold spores which can lead to infections and illness.

Newspapers and Paper Towels: Many people use these and they work great. Although, adult dragons have such larger poops that it can get very messy and unless you put down a thick layer it would quickly soak the base of the cage with fecal (both hard and liquids). We recommend using paper towels over newspaper because of the print of the paper and the paper towels hold up better once they become wet. WE STRONGLY RECOMMEND everyone use paper towels on their young beardies and stay away from sands until they are a little older and larger and eating on larger crickets which will make their aim a little easier and not as likely to ingest sand while chasing down little crickets.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

Replies (15)

cricketscritters Dec 17, 2003 10:01 AM

So, you're telling us that if we mix two different colored sands together, we'll get a different color? You must really have passed your rocket science classes to figure that one out.
GENIUS! You're a real genius. I'll have to try it to see if you're right. LOL!
Still miss you & the gang. Can't wait 'til our next show. Have you found a male snow yet?
1/2 inch Cricket

Georgia Bearded Dragons Dec 17, 2003 10:28 AM

Hey 1/2 Cricket. Got that right. Had to put my foot down on all this arguing over sand vs. this or that as a substrate and get THE CORRECT information on record. HA HA HA LOL

Yes. My dragons must have pretty substrates you know. Can't have that plain old white stuff. The crickets are to hard to see and I want my girls (and boys) healthy and not eating their sand. So dessert pink is our designer color of choice! My dragons have to have the best look homes too.

No still searching for that wonderful gorgeous hunk of a SNOW male. If anyone knows of a supreme specimen that might be available let me know. Want a "Mr. Universe" quality man for my girls.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

CheriS Dec 18, 2003 03:33 PM

Thank you for coming on and putting your "foot down" to educate us regarding sand and we should use Zoo Med product Repti-Sand.

Hope you don't mind if I do not use your enlightenment or continue to help people on the medical fourms and list that have animals impacted from it.

For the record " Note that the main component of sand is silica (silicon dioxide, SiO2) an extremely hard and slow-wearing substance, which may have originated from soil or volcanic eruptions a million years ago. During the weathering process, the chemical composition of rock is changed, and in the process, sand is formed from dissolved silicates"

Sometime a little education is a dangerous thing
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www.reptilerooms.com

W.Wedeking Dec 17, 2003 10:59 AM

I agree, washed play sand is the best substrate for beardeds and is what we use on all 30 of our current and upcoming breeders. We also use it for all 20 of our uromastyx and my trio of xenagama taylori. We have never had any problems what so ever with it.
I also agree that papertowels are best for hatchlings and that yes alfalfa pellets do have some drawbacks, but as long as you understand what they are, alfalfa is acceptable as substrate.

I have a Bachelors in Geology. Sand, natural sand that you find in the desert, on the beach or that is mined, is predominently made up of quartz. The chemical composition of quartz is SiO2 or Silica dioxide. Therefore, the point I was trying to make is that you are contradicting yourself when you tell people to use washed play sand or this all natural Repti sand but NOT silica based sand. It is all silica based and there is nothing wrong with that. Somewhere along the line, I think someone confused "Silicone" and "Silica" or some similar misunderstanding, and now people are repeating misinformation as fact without asking questions or thinking logically about the terms.

Use some common sense. I would think as a fellow breeder that you would have hundreds of people asking you questions reguarding substrate all the time (I know I do). Some ask some pretty pointed questions. As a breeder, I feel it is my responsibilty to propigate correct and accurate information for the welfare of the dragon, for the owners happiness and for my own sanity when it comes to anwering email

Wendy

Scales Premium Exotic Reptiles

LdyPayne Dec 17, 2003 01:45 PM

naw, sand isn't the best substrate. It's messy, heavy and gets all over the place. Plastic table cloth, works great. Easy to clean, looks nice, costs only a little bit more than sand ($18 canadian for 100'x3' roll, lasts about a year), can't get swollowed, easy to disinfect, can be put over paper towel to add some spongyness (also absorbes any fluids that seep through claw holes made by the dragon), crickets can't hide under it, it doesn't hold odours, no heavy lifting involved and it doesn't get dusty.

W.Wedeking Dec 17, 2003 02:31 PM

LOL That is definately an alternative.
I do prefer the sand however as dragons are diggers and they just love digging through it (not to mention I like that natural look). I also use a shop vac for cleaning (since I have so many enclosures to clean) and it makes it neat and easy. By the time there is no sand left in the tank it is time for monthly cleaning so it really isn't a problem.

Wendy
Scales Premium Exotic Reptiles

Georgia Bearded Dragons Dec 17, 2003 04:00 PM

That sound like a great idea. Easy to wipe up too.
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www.georgiabeardeddragons.com

O_S Dec 17, 2003 10:08 PM

We've been using dirt from my back yard on our adults and babies for almost a year now, with no problems whatsoever.

The dirt here is a sandy mix. I usually put somewhere between 6 and 12 inches of dirt in the cage, and then completely soak it with water. Once it has set up and mostly dried, I then add the rest of the cage accessories and the dragons.

This creates a nice hard pack dirt that holds a burrow nicely, and is pretty easy to clean.

I have not had any problems with impaction, and I feel a hard pack dirt is a much more natural substrate for dragons.

W.Wedeking Dec 17, 2003 11:33 PM

It is, however, dirt from outside can carry unwanted parasites such as pin worms, round worms, tape worms, mites etc.... If you want to continue to use that, I would recommend baking it in your oven first to kill any of the unwanted parasites that may be hiding there.
I assume you are in an area where pestisides aren't an issue.

Wendy
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cv768 Dec 17, 2003 11:31 PM

np
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Chris

1.2.0 Bearded Dragons
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W.Wedeking Dec 17, 2003 11:36 PM

However, they can get lodged in the throat and cause choking as well and get lodged in the intestinal tract causing impaction.
I would recommend switching to something else in a hurry.
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shadow4108 Dec 17, 2003 11:51 PM

What do they mean by WASHED playsand, I get the sifted part, I'm not TOTALLY clueless. I assume it doesnt come this way, what is the easiest way to wash it?

W.Wedeking Dec 18, 2003 08:43 PM

And it does come washed
It is make for human children to play in so it better be clean! LOL
You can get it at Lowe's or Home Depot. I use the brand Quikcrete. It is all fine grained, no dust, uniform and (best of all) about $5 for 50 lbs

Wendy
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shadow4108 Dec 18, 2003 09:20 PM

You know now that you mention it.. you do have a point there. It is washed before purchase, but to see my daughter when she is finished playing in that stuff, I would have to say I don't think it helps.... LOL 50 pounds of sand around the house is a great temptation for a 2 year old. My whole house could become a dragon lair.

grimdog Dec 18, 2003 10:39 AM

Sand sucks, dirt sucks. Both make your room disgusting. Sand gets stinky quick. Dirt does not get stinky. Both are heavy. Both are a huge risk of spread of parasites (protozoans, coccidia, and all other direct cycle critters), you can not argue that you clean the cage enough. Sand absorbs the liquidy part and you don't get it all out. Trust me I know. I used to use dirt. I loved it, room didn't have a stench to it. But it is nearly impposible to treat direct life cycle parasites. You think you are clean? Yeah give it some time you will have a breakout at somepoint and it will be horrible to rid. Also both are a pain in the but to change. I also don't think dragons dig that much in it anyways if given hiding spots. The only time I see a dragon dig is to deposit eggs which can be done in a laying box. Plain paper is fine it doesn't have the best look but you take it out daily and replace it. Or there are shelf liners and those are easy also. Just my two cents you want what is best for you dragon's health sand just is not it. I know plenty of others that share this view. Suprised some others haven't jumped on this. Most breeders on this forum shun sand. Come on guys you know who you are.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

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