Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all,

I recently picked up a pair of Golden Greeks. The male is about 4-5" long and the female is 5-6" long. I have them housed in a 50 gallon with a mix of desert lizard litter and bed-a-beast as substrate. They are eating lots of romaine and mixed veggies for now and are being supplimented with reptivite. I also have a 100 watt spot light on them a heat rock and a uv bulb. I have never tried to breed tortoises before so any step by step help would be great. Feeding requirements for breeding, temperature/humidity, substrate/breeding box?, any info would be great. Thanks

In my opinion, the chances of a female greek tortoise laying eggs in a 50 gallon tank is near zero. With the male in the tank with her, it pretty much IS zero. It is just too small. Female tortoises need to feel they have a territory of their own in which they are dominant to feel comfortable enough to lay eggs. It is quite true that female tortoises can delay laying eggs for a year or even several year if they do not feel comfortable in their environment. You would most likely have to make a pen for her outside with a sandy area if you want her to lay eggs.

And take out the hot rock. It will do them no good whatsoever and just takes up room.

Thanks for the reply. Tank size aside, as I asked in my previos post and im meeting the requirements for breeding and if not what are they. Temperature, substrate, time of year they breed in. I live in Chicago so an outdoor pen is out of the question, but seperating them is not that I can do. As for the heat rock, I turn the light off at night, and room temp is 74, with the rock its close to 80 in the tank. Is it really safe to remove as it is only 3" in size anyway and warms them until I get a heat pad. Thanks

Keith

Also since I have had the two together the female is much more active than the smaller male and also eats a lot more than he does. They are both healthy as well, with that said so far I think the female is more than comfortable around the male.

From my experience with our GG's (Graeca Terrestris and Grace Soussensis) over the last 2 1/2 years here's what you need to do.

First, they need seperate enclosures. In the wild males and females don't come across each other all the frequently. Each enclosure should be a non-aqaurium of at least 3' x 5'. These are very active tortoises who wander great distances in the wild. On any given day ours are moving around and exploring their enclosures (each is 3' x 8" in size) for 6-8 hours.

Second, use a 60/40 sand/topsoil substrate about 5 inches deep. They like to bury themselves in the top 2-3 inches at night. Include 2-3 half logs they can hide under one on the 70 degree and 1-2 on the 90 degree end. Have a temperature gradient from 70-90 across the enclosure. Keep the temp no lower than 65 at night. Keep the humidity no higher than 50% at any time. Keep a 2" deep bowl filled 1 1/2 inches with water in the enclosure. They drink more than you think and need to keep themselves well hydrated.

Third, can the vegetables. Their diet should be 100% greens. Dandelions, plantain, grape leaves, mallow, and only organic romaine lettuce, endive, escarole, or collards. Give them a full opuntia cactus pad to eat every couple of weeks. Supplement each feeding with either calcium carbonate or HerpNutrition's Grassland Tortoise mix.

Fourth, it takes about a year for them to be fully acclimated to their enclosure. They become very tame when fully acclimated. Set your lights to run a 14-15 day from April through November and a 12 hour day December through March.

The above have worked for us like a charm. We've had no health problems and have hardy, active tortoises. This year will be our first attempt to breed them and based on past experience with other arid species we should have little ones sometime late summer '04.

Good luck

Both the male and the female seem to be on the small size. I wouldn’t think you could get them to breed in a 55 gal tank but I also wouldn’t say it was impossible.
While most of the suggestions given to you I would agree with for the most part, I wouldn’t let the nighttime temperatures get below 70 F until they are acclimated and you have a ‘feel’ for their personality and needs.
I found that if you don’t hit that ‘special range’ they can be delicate and die off quick but on the other hand once in that range they are like little puppies and I don’t think you can kill them.
The key points are to keep them warm and dry. My guys are at a temperature of 75 to 90 and they are doing great. The 75 F is the night time temperature. I found that when I went below that they came up with runny noses.
I’d also like to know where the natural history data comes from if anyone could be so kind.
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Ed
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Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I don't use any heat at w/mine at night. They are in my bedroom and it can get a little cool but is doesn't seem to bother them at all. I turn on the basking light when I get up an they are eating by the time I get out of the shower. I figure in the wild it does not stay above 75 every nite. I have read that goldens are pretty cold tolerant as long as they are kept dry.

That's cool. Mine seem to do better at warmer temperatures.
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Ed
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Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Ed,

My knowledge on "Golden Greek's", aside from partical experience, comes from articles on the World Chelonian Trust and Tortoise Trust web-sites, various German sites, a number of German books and publications, and many years of experience with arid environment tortoises. I thnk Darrel has a few links to some of the German sites on the WCT web-site, but I'm not sure. If not, I can get them for you. If you speak German or know someone who does they have quite a bit of good, recent research on the various GG variants and their recommendations on breaking Graeca Graeca into 18 different sub species. The small size and light carapace coloration of various types of Graeca Terrestris (like ours) makes them very similar to Egyptian's in regard to husbandry. Aside from the RNS issues we had with initial purchase they have been as bullet proof as our Russian group and my Berlandier's and Boxies in the '70's and 80's.

Ernie

Are the articles you mention from the DGHT? If not I would appreciate the references.I can muddle through german well enough.
There are actually 2 (maybe more) groups working on the taxonomy of that group. They seem to be having trouble deciding on wether to use a strictly Phylogenetic approach based on DNA or a combination of the Biological species concept and Phylogenetics. If you go strictly by DNA you are definately going to have way more than 15 species. I don't agree with this but I do believe that they should be squared away better than they are now. And then there's the cooperation between the groups... there isn't any. Everybody wants to make their mark.
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Ed
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Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Thanks Ed, you have been very helpful and I have kept it above 75 in their tank at night. Also it isnt a 55 gallon, its called a 50 breeder, the dimensions are 36" long by 18" wide by 18" high. So far everyone is doing good but my male is a little less active than my female and eats less, is this normal?? Also should I be soaking them at all in water daily, for my box turtles I always did this for about 10 minutes a day. Thanks again

keith

The sluggish behavior is not normal in these guys. My guys normally run around like little wind up toys. I found that when they are acclimated they are constantly looking for food and will litterally run up to the edge of the enclosure and beg for food when they see anyone.
I'd recommend that you keep them warm, dry and well hydrated (frequent soakings/once a day or two) until they reach that point.
In most cases the can appear to do great and then crash. I'd suggest that you have a fecal done by a vet and have them treated for what the vet might find. Chances are that they do have internal parasites. Once you get to the above mentioned point you pretty much have to try to kill them. At that point you can start playing with environmental conditions to induce breeding if you like.
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Ed
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Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care