Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have talked to Kevin over at N.E.R.D., and he said that he has had nothing but problems with his and since has decided to get rid of them. Problems like, the head did not match the body size, quite a few RI's, etc. Any problems encountered with yours? I was really considering one, since as you stated in a previous post, they are somewhat rare and still a somewhat new pattern mutation, but I decided on an albino instead. Any more frequent problems whether it be shape wise of health wise in laby's more than in any other pattern or color mutation?

I'm not Brian, but I do keep a labyrinth burm, so I just wanted to share my experiences.

For the most part I haven't had any problems with mine until very recent developments of what appears to be RI. Though I have to add that as of late it seems that his ailments are very much dependant on the humidity levels I am able to maintain. I'm in the process of setting up good humidity controls for him now - so I have high hopes that he will be back to his old self very soon.

There is of course the fact that he is a genetic morph. "Labyrinth" burmese are obviously called so due to the maze-like pattern thier skin has taken on. This pattern is in effect a genetic mutation that hasn't led to immediate death (thus, my beloved pet). In nature, any mutation that makes an animal less fit for survival generally prevents the animal from surviving to reproduce, thus ensuring the ill mutation is not passed on within the species. Yes, evolution at it's best. Here the mutation is aesthetic (at least for us keepers it is), and doesn't seem to have any other implactions on the animals health. Just as albinos look different (also due to genetic mutation), laby's look different, and that's just about where it ends.

The problem is in the fact that it does not essentially end at the aesthetic level. For example, albino animals, burmese in particular, are more prone to health problems (i.e., respiratory problems, vision disorders, and other apparently non-related conditions). To be certain, in nature albino animals aren't likely to survive at all on account of having no pigment in thier skin to protect from the suns ultraviolet light (which can cause extensive damage to DNA and is actually used for exactly that purpose in many industrial applications requiring sterilization).

I'm not sure how much correlation there is in labyrinth burms with the incidence of health problems due to the genetic mutation. It does seem though that it is at least plausible to posit the notion that given an animal is a 'mutant' in the first place there may be other complications which stem from mutations in its DNA which are not superficially obvious.

I just wouldn't be surprised to find that one of my 'mutant' pets has health problems directly related to the fact that it has 'mutated' DNA.

Well, that's my two cents (sorry for the long post),
Thanks for reading,
- Mark

>>I have talked to Kevin over at N.E.R.D., and he said that he has had nothing but problems with his and since has decided to get rid of them. Problems like, the head did not match the body size, quite a few RI's, etc. Any problems encountered with yours? I was really considering one, since as you stated in a previous post, they are somewhat rare and still a somewhat new pattern mutation, but I decided on an albino instead. Any more frequent problems whether it be shape wise of health wise in laby's more than in any other pattern or color mutation?

Well put Mark,... And if I may add to what you have said here,..

I personally have seen no evidence to date that any burm morph is any mose susceptible to any ailment than normal burms. In my time I have actually seen many more normal burms die of RI's and such than morphs. I have only seen one morph death and that was a 16 foot female albino laby that I bought already sick for 100 bucks from a one time friend. I had rushed her to my vet and got 600 bucks worth of Baytril, but she died that night before I could administer even her first shot. At that time I have never used Baytril so I was willing to try it, but otherwise had never seen any marked results from treating sick snakes with antibiotics. I have since used the Baytril on a few sick snakes and quite frankly it seems the antibiotic not only did no good, it seems to have sped up their deaths. I now will only use homeopathic means of treating any sick snakes.

Also,.. about albinos in the wild,... I don't think anything has ever been proven conclusively that the albinos are subject to die due to exposure to ultraviolet rays. Though I can certainly understand that due to a lack of camoflauge any wild born albinos would be so subject to predation that it's doubtful any would make it to maturity. There have, however been a few 5 and 6 foot albinos captured, I believe (if memory serves me correctly).

>>I'm not Brian, but I do keep a labyrinth burm, so I just wanted to share my experiences.
>>
>>For the most part I haven't had any problems with mine until very recent developments of what appears to be RI. Though I have to add that as of late it seems that his ailments are very much dependant on the humidity levels I am able to maintain. I'm in the process of setting up good humidity controls for him now - so I have high hopes that he will be back to his old self very soon.
>>
>>There is of course the fact that he is a genetic morph. "Labyrinth" burmese are obviously called so due to the maze-like pattern thier skin has taken on. This pattern is in effect a genetic mutation that hasn't led to immediate death (thus, my beloved pet). In nature, any mutation that makes an animal less fit for survival generally prevents the animal from surviving to reproduce, thus ensuring the ill mutation is not passed on within the species. Yes, evolution at it's best. Here the mutation is aesthetic (at least for us keepers it is), and doesn't seem to have any other implactions on the animals health. Just as albinos look different (also due to genetic mutation), laby's look different, and that's just about where it ends.
>>
>>The problem is in the fact that it does not essentially end at the aesthetic level. For example, albino animals, burmese in particular, are more prone to health problems (i.e., respiratory problems, vision disorders, and other apparently non-related conditions). To be certain, in nature albino animals aren't likely to survive at all on account of having no pigment in thier skin to protect from the suns ultraviolet light (which can cause extensive damage to DNA and is actually used for exactly that purpose in many industrial applications requiring sterilization).
>>
>>I'm not sure how much correlation there is in labyrinth burms with the incidence of health problems due to the genetic mutation. It does seem though that it is at least plausible to posit the notion that given an animal is a 'mutant' in the first place there may be other complications which stem from mutations in its DNA which are not superficially obvious.
>>
>>I just wouldn't be surprised to find that one of my 'mutant' pets has health problems directly related to the fact that it has 'mutated' DNA.
>>
>>Well, that's my two cents (sorry for the long post),
>>Thanks for reading,
>>- Mark
>>
>>
>>>>I have talked to Kevin over at N.E.R.D., and he said that he has had nothing but problems with his and since has decided to get rid of them. Problems like, the head did not match the body size, quite a few RI's, etc. Any problems encountered with yours? I was really considering one, since as you stated in a previous post, they are somewhat rare and still a somewhat new pattern mutation, but I decided on an albino instead. Any more frequent problems whether it be shape wise of health wise in laby's more than in any other pattern or color mutation?
>>
>>
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

Antegy, I would just like to say, that I have seen your pictures in the Gallery and you have a gorgeous Laby. I think that yours was the first one I had ever seen and was looking for one since I saw it. They are very hard to find. All the ones I found were imports. I talked to Bob Clark and he said nothing was available til next year.

Just wanted to add that,
Jason

Hi Jason,

No, I haven't had a single problem with my albino labys yet. All of them are fantastic eaters, as all of my burms are. Their heads don't seem abnormally small, though due to young ages and fairly great sizes their heads are of course smaller than most burms of their length (when burms are brought up fast their heads are generally a bit smaller and less "mature" for a few years). And while their heads do seem to have a different shape (more stout and "button-like", this is likely due to the head shape of the original labyrynth pattern mutation that started the line. Parents do pass on their genes you know. Though not all are like this. I have one adult male albino laby that has a rather long and considerable head. I wouldn't think anything of it. One cool thing about burmese is that there really is no standard head shape, they are all so unique and no two exactly alike. I have seen overly droopy heads (which I find ugly), square heads, rectangular heads and round or oval heads, long noses, short noses, fat noses and narrow noses. I like this and appreciate the way it adds to the already existing diversity of this beautiful species.

I remember back in the 70's that to own one of these animals was a status symbol. It was really a cool thing. And now it's a shame that they are so over bred that they are expendable and cheap. That's why I only breed the high end morphs.

Anyway,. sorry I got off on a tangent there. One thing leads to another and I begin to reminiscence about the "old days" and what it was like.

>>I have talked to Kevin over at N.E.R.D., and he said that he has had nothing but problems with his and since has decided to get rid of them. Problems like, the head did not match the body size, quite a few RI's, etc. Any problems encountered with yours? I was really considering one, since as you stated in a previous post, they are somewhat rare and still a somewhat new pattern mutation, but I decided on an albino instead. Any more frequent problems whether it be shape wise of health wise in laby's more than in any other pattern or color mutation?
-----
"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

I would love to see some pics of some of your animals. If you don't want to post them here, my email address is: gamerjjt@yahoo.com

Thanks,
Jason

No problem Jason. I love to show off my beautiful babies. I just need to go take some fresh pictures and upload them and then host them on kingsnake. Should be today or tomorrow. If I forget just remind me. I forget things a lot these days

>>I would love to see some pics of some of your animals. If you don't want to post them here, my email address is: gamerjjt@yahoo.com
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Jason
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

I just checked out the pictures you currently have posted. What a beautiful pair of Ceylonese you have. I have wanted one, but I am learning more about burms everydays and I would hate to make a big mistake with such a beautiful animal and have something go terribly wrong. Maybe someday (sigh)

Thanks for the compliment, it's warmly recieved. But I couldn't help but chuckle as I was reminded of the storyline and dialog from "Little Red Riding Hood":

"What a beautiful pair of ceylonese you have."

"All the better to constrict you with my dear."

LOL

>>I just checked out the pictures you currently have posted. What a beautiful pair of Ceylonese you have. I have wanted one, but I am learning more about burms everydays and I would hate to make a big mistake with such a beautiful animal and have something go terribly wrong. Maybe someday (sigh)
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

n/p