Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I would like to make a few statements in regards to a few comments that have been posted here regarding permits etc.

It seems to me that there is an insinuation in some of these posts that we do not maintain permits for the items we sell. If I am mistaken about this, I apologize.

However, I would like to assure our customers that this is not the case. We have spent countless hours researching and obtaining the necessary documentation for our products. I have personally been working with fruit flies for almost 20 years and with Drosophilidae specifically for about 13. During my under-graduate study I worked for an IFAS/APHIS entomology team doing research on biological control of agriculturally relevant pest insects. Upon graduation I worked for the Florida Department of Agriculture/USDA joint task-force for the eradication of Mediterranean Fruit Fly. Through these experiences I developed an excellent understanding of biological processes and professional culturing methods. I have also established working relationships with several entomologist working with the USDA, FDACS, and IFAS. I have been fortunate in that I have been able to bring their knowledge and experience to FlyCulture and to the hobby. FlyCulture has been growing by leaps and bounds thanks to our clients. We now employ several people and are in the process of moving to yet a larger facility. Please be confident that we have a clear understanding of the regulations concerning our products. So when we state that we are "USDA APPROVED", you can be assured that we too have complied with the rules and regulations that are required and of course this is for your protection as well. We look forward to many more years of serving our clients. Make sure to stop by and say hello at the next show!

Kind Regards,

Derek Rader
www.flyculture.com
tollfree: 866.681.1332
Link

You guys have already driven a few of my most TURSTED AND RELIABLE suppliers out of business, or put them beyond my direct reach because of undocumented assertions. This is RIDICULOUS. One bad experience does not constitute a bad supplier. One of my best suppliers of feeders and MOSS is now unable to do business with me because some 12 year old didnt like the color of his moss! BTW, Ill never, never do business with anyone involved in that conversation, ever.
Get it thru your thick skulls:
THIS IS A SMALL HOBBY. IF WE DRIVE SUPPLIERS OUT OF BUSINESS THRU ASSERTIONS AND SINGLE PERSON ACCOUNTS OF BAD EXPERIENCES, WE ARE ONLY SCREWING OURSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If youve had a problem with someone, please take your stories elsewhere and discuss in PRIVATE!!!!! If youve got questions about a supplier, ask here, but TAKE THE CONVERSATION OFF THE FORUMS!!!!! If you trust the person giving the report, dont do business with supplier. If youve had a bad experience, dont do more business with that supplier, or make it a legal matter. Smearing reputations and slandering people on a forum like this is B.S. child stuff. If youre that immature, stay off the 'net.
I always get references when dealing with new suppliers, and I always do it in PRIVATE!!!! Please exercise some modicum of maturity and stop ruining peoples business with hearsay and supposition.
Thanks, and good luck to those who have, in my opinion, done a good job defending themselves and attempting to rectify a situation that is founded on ludicrous assertions made by people who have no idea what theyre talking about, nor understand the implications thereof.
DIVEGOD

I have to disagree with you on some points here, but I will also agree with some as well. I definitely agree that if someone has a problem with the way in which business was conducted, then they should take up the issue with the breeder/supplier first. If the issue is settled between the two parties, then no "whistle-blowing" should be necessary.
However, if we don't share our experiences on the forum, then we are all doing ourselves a great disservice. I'm not talking about business-bashing here, I'm talking about the sharing of information with one another about how they were treated by the supplier.
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Randy

Well, I sure do know how to keep the pot stirring! Okay, my point:
Do I think that people should have the right to discuss poor service? Of course.
Do I think that this relatively uncontrolled forum, in which it is very difficult to verify the accuracy of statements, is the right place to do it? NO.
I always ask peoples opinions of dealers, and listen to their feedback. But, I do it privately.
I was glad to see the reputable breeders comment on this topic. Ironically, it was them I was attempting to protect. Im just leery of what I have seen in other forums: peoples reputations tarnished because of an easily corrected mistake (we ALL make them), or a misinterpreted email. Please note the fruit fly saga of recent times....reputable breeders having to go to extraordinary lengths to protect their reputation simply because someone, somewhere, didnt like something, or something was misunderstood/misinterpreted. Its just too easy to write something in a forum and not have to be held accountable for what you've said, while meanwhile, others are suffering because of it. See my point?
I try only to buy CBB animals, and dont buy rare/endangered flora. I also dont buy from people that dont do business in a completely honest manner. If I have bad experiences, I tell others about it, but I do it privately, and try to give an objective account of what occurred. People can judge me and my story as they see fit once Ive gotten all the data out. This way, they know the source, and its not from someone posting semi-anonymously on a board somewhere. If it warrants legal proceedings, I follow through.
The pet trade in general, and specifically herps, does have some bad apples. Usually, they are self-limiting in the longevity of their business.
Please dont read too much into what Im saying. Im just leery of people getting bad rep's from a single, or even multiple yet isolated, incidents. Also, I was bummed that I lost a good source of material. Doing business with/over the internet is a difficult affair, and I want to make sure that A. people dont get ripped off and, B. that good dealers dont get badmouthed and have their business suffer just cause of misunderstandings.
That is all.
Divegod

I was thinking that everyone else must be getting something constructive out of these exchanges - because I'm certainly not. The posting of accusations, veiled and otherwise, defenses, claims, exhibits of federal licenses etc etc is of no interest to me. I have no idea how this became the public forum where suppliers work out their differences with each other.

I too am very displeased that a top supplier of moss has been forced from the market. This was not constructive to dart frog keepers and I have heard nothing negative about this fine supplier.

There is a tendency on the Web for people to complain publicly about whatever disatisfaction they have with a supplier, almost always without attempting reasonable efforts to negotiate an acceptable resolution with the supplier. I have seen more than a few lawsuits for libelous statements posted on web forums by people who have no concept of accountability for their ill-considered statements.

I hope the parties involved in the "Great Fly Debate" will consider that 99% of forum users have little interest in the finer points of federal and state fruit fly regulatory statutes, and that after a while these exchanges look different than their authors may perceive.

Can we take the legal exchanges that are from and to commercial suppliers to another venue? IMHO this isn't a seemly place to launder such differences.

Respectfully,
Dartz

n/p
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0.3 Normal Leopard geckos
1.0 High Yellow Leo
1.2 Albino Leos
3.1 Frilled Dragons
0.0.7 Baby Bearded Dragons
1.4 Adult Bearded Dragons
0.0.4 D. Leucomelas
1.0 Adult Albino Corn
0.1.1 Normal Corns
1.1 Creamcicle Corns
0.0.1 Crimson Corn

Oh, stop your whining - if you don't like a thread - DON'T READ IT! Pretty simple. Mo one forced you to read that thread.

I agree that it is a trifle silly to go back and forth like this over the fruit fly issue, but obviously to the people who are involved in the debate over the need for the permits, it is serious business.
I find the idea that a few people airing complaints about a supplier on the Kingsnake arrow frog forum would have driven someone out of business farfetched....and the idea that they would no longer be able to supply you due to allegations made here is also hard to believe...perhaps there is more to the story?
Just my two cents! Patrick

Hi Patrick!!! It is so nice to see you posting on this forum. I hope people who read this forum, see some truth in what you said!!!

Yes, everyone does know who we are talking about. When the original post was 'in process' I contacted him off the forum. In addition, since the post was removed, I have spoken with numberous people who have tried to place orders with him only to be turned away, because of some legal issues (or potential ones) the supplier was in regarding the collecting & shipping of fauna out of state. In addition, we have personally found, 1 person removed from the individual involved know of people who received frogs from him that were totally NOT what they ordered.

It was this supplier's choice to take his web site down. For those of us who got to read the entire thread prior to removal, did you notice how he reacted to customers on this public forum? When I saw this, I spoke to my business partner and let her know what I was going to say in the email to get her ok. I knew any action I took, ran the risk of loosing him as a supplier, a chance I would gladly take. His reactions to my emails were along the same line and a series of emails ensued. They were not very pretty.

I guess what I am trying to say, there is always more to the story than meets the eye.

Don't mean to vent,

Melissa
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Quality Captives

Actually I think some one must have forced him out of business, you dont just take your site down and post "This Site is permanently down" for grins!! But Im pretty sure it wasnt some twelve year old that didnt like his moss!
I for one take a pretty dim view of people who come along and think they can just jump in to the hobby/business, tell every one they have been at it for ten years, and start brokering animals,(representing them as ones you bred your self) and misrepresenting froglets as sub adults.....This hobby seems to attract a steady supply of these types, and I am glad to see them go as fast as possible, before they ruin too many peoples first experience with these frogs.
By the way, for all of you out there that have a bad experience with a supplier you found on this site, you can complain to the "management" here at Kingsnake, and I believe after three verified complaints the business/individual will have their right to post on this web site revoked. I certainly think that all complaints should be first directed to the seller, but if they seem unwilling to do what is right, use this tool to see to it that they dont do it to someone else! Patrick

I think we know who we are talking about here and someone complaining about an unsatisfying shipment will not put someone out of business, all of us with the best intentions have had things go wrong. There is always an opportunity to correct reputable situations, but when I see someone advertise highly endangered and protected flora to put in someones terrarium I wonder where that justification comes from. Collecting wild orchids and tsillandias needs to be regulated and monitered, I have no idea if this effected one of the dart frog hobbies newer "experts/suppliers" but my guess would be there is a connection.

I think I know who they may be talking about and I would bet that some or all of what he may have been doing might not have been legal. Though i am just guessing on who.
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Kyle
www.kylesphotos.com
Dart Links - still a work in progress
1.2.0 D. leucomelas
1.1.0 D. azureus
1.0.1 D. imitators

I don't want people thinking that because I am having problems with the culturing of a "New" type of fly, that I am trying to bad mouth Flyculture.com. Derek has ALWAYS responded to my emails, and taken care of every question I've had. There was a misunderstanding (That was my fault), Derek went above and beyond what I expected, and for this he has my business.
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MIKE
4.14 Leopards (SHTCT, and Jungle Albino Trempers)
2.13 Fat Tails (Amels, Hets, and Normals)
1.1 Teratolepis Fasciata
1.3 Crested geckos
0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius (Citronellas)
1.0 Diamond Back Terrapin
14 Snakes (Tri colored hogs, subocs, alterna, rosy boas, and black milks)

I would say that we owe it to each other to share our exsperiences in this hobby. After all it is the internet and anything is possible on here. I don't believe we should bash each other but we should be allowed to tell about our exsperiences so others can consider who is safe to deal with and who is not.

TonyT

Public questions are OK? Not a public reply? A little one sided don't you think? Next time I get ripped off, I'll shut up and let you be next.

Why? So everyone else can get screwed?

Here's a way to get us all on your side!

And leave the newbies in the dark ? This is where we are "only screwing ourselves". Some newbies come here for references.

Smearing and Slandering are terms that apply to statements that are not true. What if it is true? If I sold you a car that didn't run, and you knew that I'd done it before, would you keep it to yourself? Or would you let the everyone else here buy the same piece of crap?

I'm 39 years old and I've spent 21 years defending ALL of our rights to voice your opinions here. Key word - "opinions" - take it or leave it!

This reply has nothing to do with Jerry(Drosophila) or Derek(Flyculture). It is a reply to Divegods post.

Donn

...If youve got questions about a supplier, ask here, but TAKE THE CONVERSATION OFF THE FORUMS...

Public questions are OK? Not a public reply? A little one sided don't you think? Next time I get ripped off, I'll shut up and let you be next.

...If youve had a problem with someone, please take your stories elsewhere and discuss in PRIVATE...

Why? So everyone else can get screwed?

...Get it thru your thick skulls...

Here's a way to get us all on your side!

...I always get references when dealing with new suppliers, and I always do it in PRIVATE!!!!...

And leave the newbies in the dark ? This is where we are "only screwing ourselves". Some newbies come here for references.

...Smearing reputations and slandering people on a forum like this is B.S. child stuff...

Smearing and Slandering are terms that apply to statements that are not true. What if it is true? If I sold you a car that didn't run, and you knew that I'd done it before, would you keep it to yourself? Or would you let the everyone else here buy the same piece of crap?

...If youre that immature, stay off the 'net...

I'm 39 years old and I've spent 21 years defending ALL of our rights to voice your opinions here. Key word - "opinions" - take it or leave it!

This reply has nothing to do with Jerry(Drosophila) or Derek(Flyculture). It is a reply to Divegods post.

Donn

Well said, Donn. I could not have said it better myself.
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Homer W. Faucett III, esq.
Purveyor of Trivialities and Fine Nonsense

n/p
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3.0.1 Tinc Patricias
0.0.2836 Pea Aphids
0.0.4392 Springtails
0.0.1842 FruitFlies
0.1.30 Dampwood Termites