Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,
I have an online friend who had just gotten her first beardie about a month ago. The bearded's name is Ivy. They got her from a pet store, who had gotten the dragon from someone who had just dropped her off with the tank and everything. So my friend took her home after visiting the pet shop one day.

She doesnt know much about the dragon's history, but she does know that it was fed only romaine lettuce for salad, and crickets. It was kept in just a 20 long, which is obviously way too cramped for a full grown beardie. It did have a UV light, but shes not sure what kind, or how long it has been on for. and it did have a heat lamp, only it wasnt geting hot enough, it was only reaching about 90.

So after she got it home, and reading up on how to properly care for it of course, she came to me and asked for my input on how she should change the setup to make it the best she could. So she ended up buying Ivy a 60 gallon breeder, she got a new reptisun 5.0 UVB light, a higher basking bulb so it now gets about 105, and now her salad consist of the good stuff like collards, squashes, sweet potato, etc. From what she says, the dragon perked up right away, is eating great (isnt too fond of her greens yet though, which we are still working on), and has since gained a lot of weight. She is ten times more active too, and they even started getting worried that she may be *too* active, hehe. Ivy is just overall a lot happier she loves her bath too, which her daughter gives her every few days or so.

So anyways, she asked me yesterday about her back, which is shown in the pic below. I have never seen a pic of Ivy from the top view until now, so i never caught it in the other pics I have seen of her. She says she took Ivy to a vet who does specialize in exotics and reptiles, and the vet told her that Ivy was very healthy, and wasnt sick or anything. But my friend asked me if it looked like MBD, whichshe had read about. To me, thats what it looks like. Since no one knows if her insects were dusted before she got her, or just how old the uvb light was, and since she was only fed romaine as her salad, it seems like thats what it would be. she said Ivy never pulls it straight and it has pretty much always been like that and she didnt think much of it at first, but it showed up more as Ivy grew. That got me wondering about the vet she took it to, because that would be one of the first things a reptile vet would notice, i would think.

So anyhoo, my question is, what exactly can she do about it? she is dusting the crix with calcium with D3, has a brand new UVB light, and it trying to get her to eat the good salad. are their any chances of her back to become straight again? sorry, i dont know all that about about the specifics of MBD and how permanent it is or can be. anything else she should be doing? Her and her daughter just love Ivy to death! Sorry this got so long! and thanks for any help

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~Melissa~
1.3 Leopard geckos (Guido, Oasis, Gypsy, Marli)
1.0 Bearded dragon (Pharoah)
1.0 Hog Island Boa (Michelangelo)
0.0.1 Crested Gecko (Picasso)
1.0 Ferret (da Vinci)
0.1 Chinchilla (Eevie)
1.0 Chinese Praying Mantis (Sid)

Melissas Menagerie

I'm no expert, and certainly not a vet, but could it be some kind of birth defect? Does she have problems moving, or are there any other signs of illness, apart from the crooked back?

Accourding toher, Ivy has no problems moving around. In fact, she is constantly running around and playing in her cage. She will even lay on her back, with her head sitting up, in her water bowl (it looks so CUTE! ) She can catch her crickets fine and everything too. So the crooked back hasnt seemed to stop her. and the reptile vet said she was very healthy.

When you take em to the vet, is there a certain test that tests MBD for sure? or do they just look and tell? sorry, i'm pretty ignorant when it comes to it.
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~Melissa~
1.3 Leopard geckos (Guido, Oasis, Gypsy, Marli)
1.0 Bearded dragon (Pharoah)
1.0 Hog Island Boa (Michelangelo)
0.0.1 Crested Gecko (Picasso)
1.0 Ferret (da Vinci)
0.1 Chinchilla (Eevie)
1.0 Chinese Praying Mantis (Sid)

Melissas Menagerie

I don't think that's a normal position for a beardie. But I'm not sure. If the vet says she's healthy then that's good. My guess would be that her back is the result of a birth defect like said before. CheriS would be a good person to ask about this.

Veronica
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Beautiful Dragons

Lying on back is odd, i thought that right when i read the post. I say birth defect as if it was MBD i think there would be other symptoms. Blood work could be done to see calcium levels. Sometimes they are bone with goofed up spines. I have seen wavy tail babies come out of the egg. No other defects jsut one that had a small s in the tail. And there were no signs of insufficient calcium. I say you have a case of the same thing. Looks like a severe case of spineabifada (I suck at spelling and I am too lazy to look that up).
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

Thanks so basically, theres not much she can do about it and as long as she has the right husbandry, than she will be a fine and happy dragon who lives a full life? even with the kinked back?

Yeah, I have seen a pic of her lying on her back in the water dish. er, its more like, sitting. like if you can imagine a dragon sitting on a recliner fully reclined, thats what it looks like. Her daughter will even joke that "it looks like all she needs is a beer." hehe. she will splash around the water dish, and just lounge in there. It sounded odd to me at first, but she doesnt sit like that for extended periods of time or anything. I dont know, maybe its just some weird habit she likes to do? anyways, thanks for everyone's input!
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~Melissa~
1.3 Leopard geckos (Guido, Oasis, Gypsy, Marli)
1.0 Bearded dragon (Pharoah)
1.0 Hog Island Boa (Michelangelo)
0.0.1 Crested Gecko (Picasso)
1.0 Ferret (da Vinci)
0.1 Chinchilla (Eevie)
1.0 Chinese Praying Mantis (Sid)

Melissas Menagerie

IF she moves, eats, and defecates correctly then I think she will survive. The one problem in humans with curved spines is that if the curve is too great it intefers with breathin. That is one thin I could see happening, although that seems to be pretty low down. So I could see her being fine. Who knows as she grows it may straighten a little or get a little worse. The sitting in the water may just be an odd behavior.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

I think I have seen the beardie before and can tell you what caused the curve in her back
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www.reptilerooms.com

At my practice we have, unfortunately, seen a few beardies with backs like your friend's dragon. First, yes it is permanent but as long as she is getting around ok with proper husbandry there shouldn't be any further damage.

In the beardies we have seen the cause was poor calcium supplementation and access to UVB. This caused weakened and brittle bones that easily fracture. When these fractures healed (again without proper calcium levels) the bone that the body laid down caused the fusing of vertebrae. If this happens during periods of growth it causes a curving of the spine and tail. If the veterinarian xrayed the animal it would be easily visible on the radiographs. You would see an increased density of bone around the areas of the curves. This is my educated guess based on the picture you posted. I would need to see radiographs to be sure. Calcium supplementation is critical in this animal to prevent further deformities.
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Stacey