Reptile & Amphibian Forums

where can i buy rat food in bulk. they block kind i can it lab blocks don't know if thats the real name or not .please put a web site so i can get ahold of them thanks

www.harlan.com
produces lab blocks for rats. There are a few other listed at the following website (just scroll down to the area covering nutrician):

http://www.ratsrule.com/ratcare.html

www.mazuri.com/main.html

you can look up LOCAL dealers, and then have them order you a shipment of the lab blocks.

best of luck

dan

Do you get the regular rodent pellets (5663) or do you get one of the breeder formulas? The breeder formulas to me didn't look like they have enough protein.

Thanks!
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Anna

The Zoo
Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost(pastel) - Eek & Boo
0.1 Amel - Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Motley - Cordelia aka Cordy
Boas
0.1 Columbian (BCC) - Bella
Lizards
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo Agouti - Moon
1.0 Standard Black - Pluto
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Fiona
0.1 Gray DMS - Druscilla aka Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

Get the breeder formulas. The 9F or the 11F are best for breeders that are producing snake food. The fat content is what is important for breeders. Moms need it for their milk.

You can't buy Mazuri feeds on line, you have to go through a Perina dealer. Depending on where you live the price varies quite alot due to freight. Check around, I have found prices in my area that range from $15 for 50 pounds all the way up to $35.

Depending on how much you use you can get it pretty well priced. I recently bought 20 fifty pound bags for $12.50 each.
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Wade's Weptiles & Wodents

Okay, here's the point where I admit that I currently feed dog food mixed with Kashi Cereal & oatmeal. I also daily give fruit/veggies and 1 protein source (i.e. chicken, mealworms, fish) and sometimes wheat bread. I know the dog food I have is about 18% protein, but I don't know the fat content. What do you recomend for percentages of each in the main food source? Are lab blocks really better than dog food. I was thinking that the animal protein/fat in dog food might be preserved with agents that would cause cancer in rats. Lab blocks seem to have a lot of soy protein which might be better for them. If I decide to switch can I do it abrubtly or do I need to phase out dog food and slowly replace with lab block. Will it affect the production level of my animals?

Crude protein not less than ?
Crude fat not less than ?
Crude fiber not more than ?
Ash not more than ?
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Anna

The Zoo
Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost(pastel) - Eek & Boo
0.1 Amel - Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Motley - Cordelia aka Cordy
Boas
0.1 Columbian (BCC) - Bella
Lizards
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo Agouti - Moon
1.0 Standard Black - Pluto
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Fiona
0.1 Gray DMS - Druscilla aka Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

I may get burned at the stake for saying this but dog food isn't the evil that some people seem to think. The ingredients in dog food are much the same as those found in lab blocks. Don't be too hard on yourself about that.

I believe, and I think most nutritionist will agree, that variety is very important in any animals diet. Lab blocks are very good and provide a complete ballanced diet but I think it can be improved on. I feed 50% lab blocks and 50% my own mix. The target crude analysis that I am shooting for is 16% prodein, 10% fat and 10% fiber.

I make my own mix in large quanities because it is cheaper to buy that way. I buy 50 pound bags of each of the following: Whole corn, milo, wheat, crimped oats, black oil sunflower seeds, bird scratch (cracked corn, milo, and wheat, calcium), 22% turkey grower pellets (high protien), chicken lay pellets (high calcium) and a 50 pound bag of a cheap dry cat food that is 27% protien and 10% fat. The crude analysis of this mix is pretty close to my target analysis.

This recipe makes 450 pounds of mix. I dump all the bags out on a clean cement area and mix it with a shovel. After it is mixed I put it in 30 gallon trash cans and seal them. My mice and rats look at it as a treat and really like it. I pour the mix over the top of the lab blocks and they will eat all the mix first.

Any time you change diets for your animals it should be done slowly. Start with just a little bit and increase it slowly over a period of time.

Will lab blocks increase you production? Maybe. You are supplementing your dog food with good stuf. More grains might be good. I think you can achieve good results without lab blocks if they are not readily avaliabe to you.

Sorry I got so wordy.
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Wade's Weptiles & Wodents

That was the kind of analysis I was looking for. I did a lot of reading on rat club sites before I started with my current mix, but I asked here because the needs of feeders are different than pet rats. For one these guys are going to be taxed more by constantly having babies, plus they need to be nutritionally complete for my reptiles. I used to get the Kaytee rodent blocks but my rats won't even eat the darn things and I don't think they are the best quality. I bought some good dog food (Nutro, I think) that's made with rice and lamb and it had similar percentages of protein and fat to what I wanted with no red dye. I know other local feeder breeders use dog food and have good results as long as they supplement. The only thing that concerns me is the preservatives so I can see why lab block might be a better choice. One thing is for sure...it can be a heated topic and everyone has their own opinion.

So you only shoot for 16% protein? I had heard mothers needed about 20% to reduce canniblism. I assume you have had no problems with this? Also, what grains would you suggest I add to the current mix? I think the Kashi cereal has 7 different puffed rices and grains and then I do the wheat bread and rolled oats. Oh and, have you ever given them any bran for fiber? We give bran mash to the horses and they love it, so I was wondering about the rats.

Thanks again for your help. I think I tend to be wordy too!
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Anna

The Zoo
Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost(pastel) - Eek & Boo
0.1 Amel - Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Motley - Cordelia aka Cordy
Boas
0.1 Columbian (BCC) - Bella
Lizards
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo Agouti - Moon
1.0 Standard Black - Pluto
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Fiona
0.1 Gray DMS - Druscilla aka Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

A little more protien won't hurt but is not really necessary. The fat and calcium content is much more important for milk production.

I don't believe rats or mice eat their babies due to a protien deficency. At least not unless an extreem case. I think 90% of canibalism is due to stress of some kind on the mother. It could be diatary stress but more commonly it will be environmental stress of some kind. (I know I just misspelled 10 words in that sentence but I'm going fast)

When I suggested you look at other grains, I guess what I was thinking of was that all of the grains that you mentioned were processed in some way. Kashi cereal, wheat bread, wheat bran, puffed rice and rolled oats. I think it might be better to feed the whole grain. I'm sure it would be cheaper for you.

Since you have horses, you might be familiar with the Perina product called Omelene. Omelene 200 is for lactating mares and is a great feed for rodents. It has whole oats and a variety of supplements.

I'm going to end soon I promise. You mentioned you were concerned about the preservatives in dog food. Remember that the lab blocks are going to have some kind of preservatives as well. If it contains animal fat it is going to go rancid without something to prevent it. In the back of my mind I keep wondering, if these preservatives in dog food are so bad, why don't they hurt the dogs?
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Wade's Weptiles & Wodents

You’re totally right about the grains I am giving (all processed), and I didn’t really think about it because it’s so easy to grab the boxed stuff at the store. When I had just pet rats I used to get the Kaytee festive mix or whatever it’s called when I got the blocks, and it had more whole grains but a lot of stuff just went to waste so I quit buying it. I don’t make it to the feed store often because my horse is boarded and I just pay for them to feed him hay. I tend not to supplement his feed with grain too often or he gets all hyper (and fat). The molasses coating on Omelene is okay for rats too? It’s not too much sugar? I am going to the feed store to pick up some lab blocks so I can get some then too. I will have to double check my calcium level because I honestly don’t know if it’s high enough but I know they add it to the Omelene 200. And I should be able to pick up some whole grain at the feed store too.

I was just thinking rats are more prone to cancer than dogs so maybe the labs made better cancer reducing food for rodents. I don’t really know…it was just a thought. Actually a lot of lab blocks are made with soy protein that I think tends to fair better than animal protein as far as being preserved and is thought to prevent cancer. Also, I think they use some fish in lab blocks and doesn’t fish oil help prevent cancer too?

I will keep experimenting as I am sure all breeder do and let you know if I have any particular successes.
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Anna

The Zoo
Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost(pastel) - Eek & Boo
0.1 Amel - Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Motley - Cordelia aka Cordy
Boas
0.1 Columbian (BCC) - Bella
Lizards
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo Agouti - Moon
1.0 Standard Black - Pluto
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Fiona
0.1 Gray DMS - Druscilla aka Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

I have used the Omelene as an added ingredient in my mix. I probably wouldn't use it straight or that would be too much molasas.

Any of the whole grains from the feed store would be good. The feed store here has what they call bird scratch. It's a mix of cracked corn, milo, and wheat.

You're probably right about the benifits of soy and fish meal.

I can't remember the rest of your questions, I'll have to read it again.

Wade
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Wade's Weptiles & Wodents

thanks for the help everyone