Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone,
I've only had my male Russian Tortoise for a couple of months now, so I'm new to tortoises. He has been checked by the vet and is very healthy. He is also an avid eater. I've read as many sources of russian tort care as I can find, and I've read that feeding too much can cause pyramiding of the shell, and other health problems. Well, how much is too much? I feed him about a handful of greens with a bit of veggies on the side every day. He pretty much finishes it all, except for a couple pieces here and there. I don't want to starve him, but I don't want to over feed him either. Is there any way someone can give me an estimate on how much food to feed him? His shell is 5" long, if size makes a difference, and he comes out for at least an hour long "run" 5-6 days a week, sometimes longer, so he can "burn the fat" Thanks for any help!

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~Sarah
1.1 Mali Uromastyx (Draco and Pumpkin)
0.1 Indian Uromastyx (Cheddar)
1.0 Russian Tortoise (Pookie)
8.9.22 Millipedes (9 different species)

When you feed a high fiber varied diet I don't think there really is such a thing as too much.
This sounds simple but it's not. In this particular instance there are lots of 'ifs' but the most important one is if you feed a diet based mainly on plants and grasses I can't see how you can overfeed. While I know this is not the same thing... have you ever seen a fat vegitarian? I haven't.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

EJ, I'm a fat vegetarian. But my diet is not restricted to salad greens and veggies. Unfortunately, I also enjoy the occasional beer, chips, and baked goods. LOL I'm sure I would be much healthier if I ate like my tortoises.

Linny

So I'll ad an adendum here...
If you omit the beer, chips and double mocha dark chocolate multilayer cake with the real chocolate whip cream (and milk, of course) you should not have a problem.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Tortoises are vegan... That means no animal products/bi-products in their eating. I'm a vegan too and have several vegan friends... There is no such thing as a fat vegan (and if you see a fat one, chances are they are loose with their diet and aren't truly vegan). It's kinda funny... I made a salad last night out of my tortoises' veggies and ate it. I love the fact I can share a meal with my tortoises and get the same enjoyment they do.

They're even more vegan than vegans, since they don't typically eat the seeds, nuts, beans, etc. that vegans do eat. Tortoises must be the world's strictest vegans, lol (and all raw foods, too!).
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

Not if they are given Mazuri, Sohni!!

Actually, I was thinking of wild tortoises, but probably strictly speaking you couldn't call them vegan, either, since at least some of them may ingest animal matter from time to time...but presumably no Mazuri.
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

That's true. Even wild tortoises who have no intention of eating animal foods no doubt do ingest some bugs on the plants they eat. Very few animals are strictly vegetarian or strictly carnivorous. Even lions and tigers and wolves and in fact, most predators eat quite a bit of vegetable matter. Know how?

Do you mean that they get plant matter in the guts of the animals they eat? Or by eating dung, which they also sometimes do. I know that members of the dog family (wolves, anyway) do eat fruit when given the chance. My parents' dog (a Lab) will actually spend quite a bit of time picking and eating blackberries--she's surprisingly good at it, too.
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

Like I said before, you are sharp. Almost all land predators eat the stomach and intestinal contents of the animals they kill, and it is usually the first thing they go to. Since most predators kill only vegetarian animals, they get quite a bit of nutritious and half-digested greens this way. Some zoologists think this is very important for their health, and why many zoo animals are prone to disease. In zoos, they get only muscle meats with vitamins somtimes added.

Even carniveroius fish like sharks will often eat fish that have fed on algae or green plankton.

np
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

Very good point. I wish more people understood that. Whether it's rats or mice for your snake or monitor, or goldfish for your Oscar or Red Devil, the feeder animals you feed your pets should be conditioned first with nutritious food before you even think about feeding them to anything. It is SO important.

I used to work in a tropical fish store, and most people would come in and buy a whole bunch of feeder fish and just dump them into the tank with their fish! If they knew how sickly and lacking in nutrition those feeders were, they would not do that. You might as well be feeding cardboard to your pet! Feeders are kept in the most disgusting ways imaginable with just enough food to keep them alive.

You're right about canines eating plant matter like berries too. I've never had a dog, but I have heard similar stories about them eating plant material. My brother's dog LOVES to eat the avocados that fall from his giant avo tree. Cats are less inclined to eat plants directly, I believe.

Polar bears are often thought of as being one of the most carnivorous of animals because they feed almost entirely on seals in the colder months, which in turn eat fish, so there is really no plant matter in their winter diets. However, they do eat berries and leaves in the summer when the seals no longer come out onto the ice.

One thing I learned from playing "Oregon Trail" with my kids is that you can prevent scurvy if you have a good supply of fresh meat, even if you run out of fruit or vegetables. There is also Vitamin C in vinegar.
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

I did not know that. I'll have to eat more pickles. I love Clossen's anyway!

I didn't think there was much vit C in meat either. I do know that the Indians (native Americans, excuse me) and Eskimos used to prize the livers of animals because they knew it prevented scurvy, and liver has been confirmed to have a lot of vitamin C in it. Much more than any other part of an animal's body.

According to "Oregon Trail," anyway. I don't think there's as much Vit. C in meat as in fruits or veggies, but there is certainly some.
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

How's the new guy doing?

Bruno is doing well. He's eating a bit every day and moving around, so I think in another week he'll be just fine. He's going to the vet on the 26th (soonest I could get an appt. because the vet is on vacation).

Interestingly, I've always had cuttlebone available, but never saw any interest in it. Today I thought I'd cut it into smaller pieces and they chowed down on it.
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

Any time I have spinach or other greens within his reach, he steals them and runs off to eat them. I figure it won't hurt him and he seems to enjoy himself. Soemtimes I give them to him on purpose.

Unfortunatly, he also eats any house plant within his reach... needless to say, we don't keep anything poisonous in the house.

Also, his favorite people food is tomato soup... LOL

np
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.2 Hermann's Tortoises
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

I was a vegan for years and I belonged to vegan clubs and all that. I can tell you that you can absolutely be a vegan and be fat. I saw quite a few chubs among the vegans.

Look at it this way. If you woke up in the morning and chugged down a bottle of coca cola, then had giant bowl of sugar pops with soy milk, then polished off 2 or 3 candy bars, then later ate an apple pie with carmel sauce, then for dinner had a humongous bowl of sorbet with another bottle of coke and maybe a few twinkies and some chocolate cake, you could technically call yourself a vegan and be telling the truth. But I seriously doubt you would be slim and trim.

Some tortoises, such as redfoots, will eat carion and invertabrates in the wild.

Katrina

That's true, and it is because of the poor mineral content in tropical areas. The plants just don't have enough minerals for the tortoises to grow their shells and produce eggs in areas that get alot of rain.

Every reference that I've ever read that describes the natural history of a tortoise, including grazers, lists carrion and bugs as part of their observed diet. Some seem to consume more than others.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

You must not have read very much then because the majority of people who have studied tortoises in the wild report they NEVER saw them intentionally eat anything other than vegetation. One guy I read about on the internet says he will give $1,000 to anyone who can prove desert tortoises purposely eat any animal foods in the wild.

I'll indulge you this one time because you provided me with a much need laugh.
I don't normally use internet references but I also have the hard copy of this.
http://www.deserttortoise.org/abstract/abstracts2000/2000abs25.html
I also have 2 articles in mind that reference Leopard tortoises and Sulcatas consuming carrion.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I've read that tortoises in the wild will crunch on carrion bones and the eggs and egg shells of other animals to get additional calcium in their diet...

I'm no tort expert, but I do read a lot...

(From the article you posted.)

I'd hardly call that solid evidence. It CAN constitute a SMALL part of the diet...

Look, for every link you can come up with that says they do eat carrion and such, I can find 3 that says they don't.

I will try to find the article I read a few months ago by two guys that studied desert tortoises extensively and said that the people who say they eat carrion are mistaken. They never saw it happen after years of study. They said the sightings were probably from tortoises feeding on grass around the dead animal or the digested grass that was in the animal's intestinal tract. I reserve final judgement for now, but I can say that I have offered all of my tortoises crickets and meal worms and an occasional piece of chicken and not one of them ever ate any of it. The Mouhouti box turtle is another story. He is one voracious carnivore.

I posted a quote from the article Mazuri Boy linked and it didn't show up on my previous post.

It said tortoises "may eat carrion as part of their diet."

MAY eat it as PART of their diet. Not very convincing.

It's a conspiracy... everyone is out to git you. Now, why is that?
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Ok... provide one equal to the status of that produced by K. Berry.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

What kind of veggies are you feeding? I would cut these out of the diet and stick to greens. Grow your own weeds and grass for your tortoise if you can.