Reptile & Amphibian Forums

just wanted to share a pic of one of a trio of snakes i purchased at a expo in virginia, black pinsnake -x- yellow ratsnake cross ,,i know this is the pinesnake board but since the snake is half pinesnake i figured it wouldnt hurt.

What did you feed it to?
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Tim

they started out on good size fuzz's they are very big hatchlings.

I was implying that it would make a nice getulus terd.
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Tim

You're kidding! Right? That's all anyone needs, these mutts out polluting good strains.
Well, I hope whoever bred them, and whoever acquires them, are honest about their genetics and point of origin. That is, if you're not kidding.
Think anyone is trying to produce a P. ruthveni look alike Using this cross?

The P. ruthveni comment was a joke, just wanted to clarify that, as I forgot to add an LOL at the end!

I know black rats have been bred with n. pines...looks like theres some influence of both rat and pine.

Why the hell would someone do this cross?

Was it a horrible accident?

I'm sure it'll make a nice pet snake, but, for gods sake get it neutered or something.

Or feed it to a good ole' drymarchon eh? LOL
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Andy Maddox
AIM: SurfAndSkimTx04
MSN: Poloboy32486@hotmail.com
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

>>just wanted to share a pic of one of a trio of snakes i purchased at a expo in virginia, black pinsnake -x- yellow ratsnake cross ,,i know this is the pinesnake board but since the snake is half pinesnake i figured it wouldnt hurt.
>>
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Martin Whalin

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld
My Email

For now they are. My concerns remain in the fact, later on, someone may try breeding one of these offspring with a nice specimen down the road. Heck, it's hard enough determining what has been bred with what as it is. Now we have to be concerned about not only sub-species combinations, but combinations on the species level as well.
Actually, there have been a few cases of people hybridizing pure strains, in various species, but to go into that realm would create a flame war, I am certain.
To me, this is an issue, because I work in the academic arena. It would be a considerable waste of time and resources, if I were to spend lab time and equipment use on a specimen, only to determine it had been hybridized somewhere down the line.
Perhaps if you take your mind off the dollar, you would see the harm that could possibly be incurred here.

Given time, hybrids ALWAYS get misrepresented eventually. It might take a couple of generations and a couple of different owners (even if it takes 100 years and 25 different generations!), but it only takes ONCE (frequently that once is just by accident or mistake, too) for it to go from "OK" to a "horrible" idea. That's why I don't like hybrids: they ALWAYS get mistaken eventually if they are allowed to reproduce.

Scary - at least to me.
KJ

I gave this guy my 2 cents worth over on the rat snake forum. Personally, I think he is a troll trying to raise some hackles. If this union is true, this is a perfect example of some clown that simply tried to pump out some babies for sale with whatever was in his inventory. I've got a definite problem with cross-genus hybridization, but this cross makes absolutely no sense.

i dont sell reptiles im a privet keeper i dont plan on ever selling my reptiles ,i do not and would not sell my herps ,i hope this clears up everyons mind..this not directed to some people,, but the ones that it is you know who you are

Here we go again.

This actually belongs in the Hybrids forum (a place I never bother to visit). I'm not even going to try to express my displeasure and disgust, and will pretend that I didn't even see this thread.

Feedermouse, I know that you did not breed the two species involved to create this hybrid. I realize that you just purchased this snake from somebody that was being honest with you that the snake was in fact a hybrid. Most of the people in this forum have a hard time understanding the fact that maybe you just bought this snake to be a pet. I have know doubt that this snake will make a great pet for you. I think most of the people on this forum have lost sight of this fact and that the majority of them are only in it for the money...Some of the comments on this thread are rude, arrogant, and totally uncalled for... This forum isn't just for the people that look at reptiles as a commodity. It is also for people like you and everyone else with an interest in reptiles. While I personally am not interested in hybrids for myself, I respect your right to have your own individual interests. Thank you for sharing your picture... The next time someone on this forum gets rude or arrogant with you try and just consider the source of the remark... They're just ignorant... The only thing I would ask is that you don't breed hybrids yourself, but if you do, be honest about it...
Eric

"This forum isn't just for the people that look at reptiles as a commodity. It is also for people like you and everyone else with an interest in reptiles. "

Actually, this forum is for the discussion of bull, pine and gopher snakes. The snake in question is not one of these snakes.

As far as looking at reptiles as a commodity: Once again the attack comes on against the breeders. Truth be told, most of my reptiles are a commodity. They are also "pets", I suppose, but anyone that thinks they have an emotional attachment with a snake is delusional. When I have a reptile die, I grieve just like everyone else and not just because they were worth money. However, if I died, my reptiles wouldn't shed a tear. The point is that the secret to a happy life is to make a living doing what you love to do. In my case, working with and learning about animals. But then you come along and act like I am extorting these critters that I have dedicated my life too. My only question is, how do you make your living? Oh wait, I guess that's none of my business.
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Martin Whalin

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld
My Email

First of all, my message is directed at those who got rude and way out of line with a guy who was merely showing a picture. In my opinion it's jerks like that who give this forum a bad name. Secondly, some of the people on this forum need to get off of their high horse, just because certain people in a certain cliche feel that their views should be the only ones expressed on this forum doesn't justify slamming someone else. Thirdly, for a guy that claims people must be delusional for forming an attachment to a snake, and then turns around and mentions that he goes through a grieving process everytime he loses a snake you need to quit contradicting yourself... So far the behavior that you and a select few have elected to display on this forum truley fall under what I would consider to be troll like behavior... Go back under your little bridge little man...

Eric

I'd like for you point out who was rude and what was said. I just re-read the thread and all I found were opinions and some good natured jokes. I think this thread stayed pretty civil until someone decided to call everyone else "ignorant". (awfully troll-like) The fact is, this guy posted a picture. He has to assume that people are going to reply. The only problem is that you don't agree with some of the people who replied. As far as trolling... If the original poster had ever read this forum AT ALL, then this thread was started by a troll because the response was very predictable. I tend to think that he was unaware of 1.)the cons of hybridizing and 2.)that so many people on this forum feel so strongly about it. In that case he is not a troll, just someone who hopefully learned something. I'm sure this snake will make a fine pet. And I hope the owner enjoys it. But lets remember that black pines are probably already extinct in the wild and it's just kind of a bummer that one of them was crossed with a rat snake. If these were bred back to black pines for a few generations, no one would be able to tell the difference...and I might accidentally buy one.

You stay under your bridge, and I'll stay under mine.
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Martin Whalin

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld
My Email

If you read the entire thread I shouldn't have to point anything out... It's pretty obvious... I agree with what you say about not wanting hybrids contaminating the gene pool... However, not everyone on this forum breeds reptiles... Some of the people just keep them as pets... The point I'm trying to make is that in my opinion some people jumped the gun in assuming this guys intentions. This does drive home the point though that you need to buy from only reputable breeders. Even if it means paying a little more... I also can appreciate your last remark, and I will be happy to stay under my bridge as long as you do...
Eric

If I have offended anyone, I apologize. This was not my intent. I merely wanted to affirm some of the ramifications hybridization can have.
Feedermouse, I have no doubt that your intentions with the specimens you have acquired are legitimate, but I do have concerns regarding the remainder of the offspring, and where they may end up. Also, I apologize to you, if you were offended by my remarks. I am not on a high-horse, so to speak, but I have very clear and ligitimate concerns regarding hybridization, and these concerns are by no means finance related.
I do not maintain reptiles as a commodity. I do maintain an academic collection and a few personal specimens, but I do not breed and sell on a commercial level. Also, any specimen I produce through the university is considered state property and not applicable for sale.
I wish you the best of luck with your newly acquired pet, and I do appreciate your honesty, regarding its origin.

Actually, I thought I read on the ratsnake board that he bought a trio of these. That might indicate an intent to breed these animals. If so, that is obviously his business and it is unlikely anything posted here is going to change his mind. I would never keep such animals, but I don't think it's necessary to tear someone down for sharing a picture.
All the best,
Perry

Ignorant? You are calling all the purists ignorant? Oh wait, I will just consider the source. That explains it all obviously. Preach to some other crowd.
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Andy Maddox
AIM: SurfAndSkimTx04
MSN: Poloboy32486@hotmail.com
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry