Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Since I have Hermann's tortoises, which are very commonly kept in the UK, I lurk on UK forums to pick up what info and advice I can. I've noticed that there are distinctive differences in typical husbandry practices in Europe compared to here, and since there's been some active discussion on these topics lately, I thought I'd bring those differences up! Let the fur fly!

First, the general practice in the UK is to allow night temperatures to drop below what is considered standard here. They don't usually use supplemental heat for tortoises at night, and their "room temperature" goes down as far as 10C (50F). Mind you, these are Mediterranean (Testudo sp.) tortoises, so I can't comment on their husbandry practices for other species. The main point is that they see no problem with allowing tortoises to spend the night in temperatures as low as 50F.

Second, in the UK it is almost universally believed that a healthy tortoise is a hibernated tortoise. They take hibernation very seriously over there, and it's unusual to find someone who advocates overwintering unless the tortoise is ill or underweight.

Third, pelleted diets don't seem to be big in the UK; quite the opposite, in fact. Actually, I don't believe they even sell Mazuri in the UK, but most tortoise keepers seem to be very much against the other pelleted diets available (I think mostly Pretty Pets and T Rex).

Anyway, it would be interesting to hear everyone's comments!
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

All I'll say, because I don't have experience with any of this, really, is this: Have you seen the ingredients for Pretty Pets and T-Rex tortoise pellets? That alone explains why no one uses them, even here in the US. Only inexperienced tortoise keepers would be duped into buying those two brands.

Katrina

np
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.2 Hermann's Tortoises
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

Sohni, I think the Brits are a bit more experienced than most Americans are when it comes to tortoise keeping, not to mention more practical and logical. Let's face it, we Yanks are just too anal. We heat them at night when it is unnecessary. We convince ourselves the tortoises don't need to do what's natural and hibernate. We feed them tortoise cereal (Mazuri.) We think it needs to be 100 degrees at all times during the day for them. We put them in ridiculous glass tanks designed for fish or snakes. Crap like that. I agree with most of what the Limeys say, no doubt about it. The brits have to learn more about their tortoises because the environment there is so far from what they are adapted to. Play it cool....dead tortoise. Their beliefs are much more applicable to Medeterannean torts, as you said, rather that the Africans, but a lot of it applies to them as well.

I've talked to Brits at the tortoise shows. Mention pelleted diets and they just shake thier heads in disgust. ANY pelleted diets.

and that is why we as hobbiests are producing Egyptian, Radiateds, Burmese stars, sulcatas, Emys and the list goes on.
I guess you're right again. We just don't have a clue.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

We're GETTING a clue. And if people elect me for tortoise God, it will happen faster. Don't worry, I have a post for you as official pen cleaner. I'll pay you in Mazuri people chow.

.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

My recipe for turtle soup?

np

.

Some people get depressed during the holidays and if it is allowed to fester it leads to anger. So, to Tortoisehead... I understand.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I really don't want to hear all this useless crap. If you like what the Brits do, then say so and explain why. If you think what they do is wrong, then say so and explain why. All this name calling--on ALL sides--is getting boring and annoying. I don't have time to wade through everyone's childish insults to get to what I really want to read. If you can't post a reply that's pertinent to the original post, then don't post anything.

So there.
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.2 Hermann's Tortoises
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

Ok, I'm a Brit on a Yank forum, learning from ALL participants.

By the sounds of it, we (me at least) do certain things slightly different to you guys/gals.

Sure, we who have hibinating tortoise will only hibinate a healthy tortoise but then who would hibinate a sick one anyway?

Sure we have the basic dry pellet foods (PP smells like a powder puff, no wonder they don't eat it!!)...non are a natural food a humble tort would stoop to eat.
Fresh is the way to go, on whichever side of the pond your on.

Personally I have raised 3 Sulcata's from hatchlings to 30kg each, in a little over 6 yrs.
Those of you familiar with my past posts over the yrs know that I tend to "deviate" slightly from their natural "authorised" diet.
Pizza, fish & chips, chicken, cake, toast (no butter or jam) have all been fed, IN EXTREMELY SMALL AMOUNTS.....& without doubt my torts are as healthy & fit as the next mans.
Not to say that you should feed this regime, maybe I get away with it, who knows, but when my Sulcata's see I've got a juicy tit bit they know "who's the man"

It's only natural that we all have differing points of view on how to raise our torts beit via husbandry or diet.

My collection stems to over 70 torts, (excluding hatchlings) from 3 specie (Sulcata's, Leopards & Russians), I do not spare the cost when it comes to husbandry, heating, vet fees (worming) etc.

In return, my torts look after the "mowing" of my lawns.

In answer to the eating of carrion, yes the Sulcata will eat most food items, if it's made available to them, again this must stem from their natural instincts. I have seen my own chomp down on fledgling birds which have fallen from the nest.........it's a bugger when you come home & find them climbing the trees to get them..........

Merry Xmas to all forum members.

graham(UK)

I agree with our friends from across the pond when it comes to brumation. I think it is a natural "rest" for them and since I started letting my CA desert tortoise, who as you all know now is 51 years old, bruamte his weight remains better he is healthier and in my opinion happier. I say happier because he is much more active and fiesty (snapping and head bobbing at the cats, chasing the rabbits and my husband).

I also agree that he is the best little lawn mower around! Between him and the rabbits we could just sell our lawn mower all together.

With respect to pellets I think there can certainly be a quality pelleted diet. Now, before everyone jumps all over me I do not have any opinions on any particular brand of pelleted diets. I have not researched any of the diets and I do not personally feed them to my tortoises but I find fault with the logic that we shouldn't feed pellets because tortoises do not eat pellets in the wild. 1. They are not in the wild 2. I feed pelleted diets to my dog and cats it is called kibble. I do not expect my dog to team up with her buddies on the block and run down a deer for dinner. Just thinking out loud. And no one better call me any names because I am a high school teacher and I will give you detention !!
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Stacey

Zip it, will ya?

np
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.2 Hermann's Tortoises
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko