Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
Click here to visit Classifieds

A LONG Comment on this Forum - discusses forum attitudes, help, etc.

LeoBeginner Dec 22, 2003 01:34 PM

A Comment on this Forum

Here’s my situation: I’m new to leos, and to reptiles in general. I have some experience with behaviour and none with breeding. I do, however, have some experience with getting cage temps right and have answered questions (several times, the same answer) about setting up cage temps. I’ve also experience both crix and mealies, and feel that I can competently compare the two.

I’ve only been using this board for the past few months, and already I’m hesitant to answer questions. The same ones keep popping up, and people come to this board having done zero research. If I see ‘I’m thinking about getting a leo, what kind of cage, temps, food, humidity, etc, etc, etc’ I just ignore it. There’s a reason google exists. If you do the research, you’ll find that there are contradicting views on just about every aspect of leo care. This is because there are more than one ‘right’ answers and options to everything.

Whenever someone comes on and says ‘how come nobody will help me???’, I just kind of shake my head because often there’s a good reason. Some of these reasons have already been summed up in previous posts, but here’s what some of us are dealing with:

1)It’s exam time and a good deal of the people on this forum are students. We found that out last month when I asked ‘what does everyone do’ and 75% were ‘student’. It’s exam time right now for university/college students. During exams I typically spend 14 hours a day locked in my room studying for 3+ weeks. That means I have no time free time to sift through the forum and say ‘you should use mealworms because….’. When I do get free time, I spend it with my gecko. That is the point of having one…Although I still try to post the theories and ideas that I’ve found. But if you asked questions and got answers quickly 3-4 weeks ago, realize that was before exams started, and people had time then.

2)It’s the holidays. When I’m not writing exams or working I’m moving stuff to my parents place to get ready to move back for a couple weeks over the break. If I’m not doing that, I’m probably doing my xmas shopping.

3)The same questions constantly surface. “If I use an UTH, what wattage of bulb/CHE should I use?”- Unless someone has the EXACT same setup as you, it’s trial and error. Nobody can answer this exactly. “Should I feed mealworms or crickets?” – There’s no right answer. It’s your call. Search the net and read through the previous forum pages and archives to see what others think. ‘Sand or Pellets or Paper towels or slate or gravel’.- It’s in the archives…I could keep this section going forever…

So what’s my point? My point is that I can understand why the most experienced people here aren’t that interested in answering questions. It’s true that if you ask questions about genetics, you’ll probably get a quick response. That’s because the breeders are intrigued by this discussion and can offer new and valuable input. If you ask for life or death advice, you’ll get answers. But if it’s ‘When is my egg going to hatch?’ or ‘What exact size of light do I need?’, don’t be surprised if nobody knows. You’re not being snubbed, it’s just that nobody knows exactly. I didn’t post responses to the CHE question because not too long before it I had posted an answer about using a bulb and a UTH in combination and I’d never used CHE’s.

I know this is getting long, but I had to rant. I’ve been perusing the other forums (Uro and BD as I’m seriously looking into those animals) and the same thing is going on in the BD. People complain that nobody answers. The experts complain that they’re not required to answer and are tired of answering the same questions when the answers are easily attainable with a little research. So nobody should get all excited that they’re being snubbed or that the experienced people are all high and mighty. I agree that some people have been harshly criticized for their questions, but generally I’d say this forum is fair. If you show up and ask uneducated questions without doing research, you will be ignored or talked down to, that’s just the way it is.

In closing, thank you to the voices of reason. I’m sure I’ll miss some names, but here’s a short list of people who’s opinions I consider to be beyond reproach (or at least solid):

- Ross of LeosAnonymous
- Justyn of Intense Herpetoculture
- Monte of PowerGeckos
- Marcia of GoldenGateGeckos
- Fritz of…..well….Fritz
- Xelda
- DaveCable
- KelliH

Okay, I’m tired of typing. There are more, but those are the names that came to mind first as being people who’s advice has been helpful and logical. And man, do I ever love logic!

So I’ll continue to regurgitate knowledge and theories that I’ve heard as well as experiences I’ve had with my new pet, and hopefully everyone in the forum can take one of Monte’s hippie zen pills and employ his ‘chill’ philosophy. So to everyone out there complaining about not getting help, and everyone who’s complaining about being asked the same old questions (including myself): Chill. It’ll all work out fine. Now let’s all just get along.

Have a Merry xmas, Crazy Kwanza, Happy Chanukah, Solemn but dignified Ramadan, Spectacular Festivus, or whatever floats your boat.

-----
Blaine

0.0.1 High Yellow Juvenile Leo (Echo)

Replies (17)

Rob Jenkins Dec 22, 2003 02:00 PM
roi3in Dec 22, 2003 03:08 PM

... even though you seem to be "fairly" new to this... you seem to have done the work and research it takes., you seem like you have taken the time to research your animals and i applaud that.. trial and error, alot of keeping reptiles is this because... what works for me may not work for you... their is still so little know about reptils in general....i applaud the efforts of all out there who do what they can to learn, read and research!!!!!! i feel like so many times these animals are bought on a whim because they are "cute" and no knowledge of husbandry is know and the animal ends up suffering in the end
.blaine... thank you for this post, i dont think some of the people out there realize we have lives, work ,school, families outside of this forum
again great post
-----
-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

StarGecko Dec 22, 2003 03:09 PM

n/p
-----
Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

xelda Dec 22, 2003 03:12 PM

And wow, I'm on the list. That just made my day. Thank you! ^_^
-----
chickabowwow

3.2.3 leopard geckos (Rosie, Locke, Lisa, Caesar, Tommy)

LeoBeginner Dec 22, 2003 03:16 PM

Your answers obey the first law of Blaine-ism: Common Sense. Without it, we are truly lost. I should have included everyone who's responded so far as well. I know out of that list, there are disagreements as to what the best methods and substrates are,but overall, everyone just wants to do whats' best and easiest and make sense.

>>And wow, I'm on the list. That just made my day. Thank you! ^_^
>>-----
>>chickabowwow
>>
>>
>>3.2.3 leopard geckos (Rosie, Locke, Lisa, Caesar, Tommy)
-----
Blaine

0.0.1 High Yellow Juvenile Leo (Echo)

roi3in Dec 22, 2003 03:20 PM

im not on it but i figure its because i can be quite harsh and i tend to get snippy and turn into a whole ass.....
i really am a nice person i just play a whole ass on tv =oP
-----
-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

LeoBeginner Dec 22, 2003 03:23 PM

meh. I turn into an ass when people are being stupid and ignorant. There's nothing wrong with having a little edge.

>>im not on it but i figure its because i can be quite harsh and i tend to get snippy and turn into a whole ass.....
>>i really am a nice person i just play a whole ass on tv =oP
>>-----
>>-robin struck
>> Geckoheads And Geeks
-----
Blaine

0.0.1 High Yellow Juvenile Leo (Echo)

davecable Dec 22, 2003 04:36 PM

but it sure put a smile on my face to see my name listed with some of the greatest gecko gurus around. Honestly, there are others out there that deserve a pat on the back more than I do. I don’t like to play favorites, so I think you guys know who you are.

Very good post Blaine, we all need to be reminded of these things from time to time.

My advice on how to deal with forum whiners is to ignore them. Some people think if they just complain enough, that someone else will feel sorry for then and take care of all their problems, let’s prove them wrong. Any response (positive, negative, or other) just reaffirms that whining will result in the attention they desire.

We will always have to put up with newbie questions, like you said, take a ‘Monte hippie zen pill’, help when you can, and things will work out fine.

That said, have a very happy holiday season to everyone. I hope you all have wonderful breeding results this New Year!

DaveCable

Fritz Dec 22, 2003 05:09 PM

happy festivus to you too, I just put up my aluminum pole
-----

The following sentence is true.
The above sentence is false.

4.4 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Marbled Gecko
1.1 Red Eared Sliders
0.2 Siamese Mice

LeoBeginner Dec 22, 2003 05:35 PM

My neighbour just tried to wrap my aluminum pole with tinsel, but i took it down because i find it distracting....

Time to go celebrate festivus right: with beers, pool, and MNF. Go Pack! (Mostly for favre considering his dad and all, tomorrow morning i'll go back ot my usual battle cry of 'GO COLTS!')

>>happy festivus to you too, I just put up my aluminum pole
>>-----
>>
>>
>>The following sentence is true.
>>The above sentence is false.
>>
>>4.4 Leopard Geckos
>>1.0 Marbled Gecko
>>1.1 Red Eared Sliders
>>0.2 Siamese Mice
-----
Blaine

0.0.1 High Yellow Juvenile Leo (Echo)

Fritz Dec 22, 2003 06:46 PM

yeah thats a shame about his dad, I heard about it on the way to work today.
I'm not a big football guy, but it sucks either way
-----

The following sentence is true.
The above sentence is false.

4.4 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Marbled Gecko
1.1 Red Eared Sliders
0.2 Siamese Mice

GoldenGateGeckos Dec 22, 2003 07:56 PM

What you said is pretty much true. This forun is designed for the purpose of sharing information, and all of us are more than willing to give advise, opinions, help, and moral support. It is very hard sometimes, though... especially because we do have to wade through all the superfluous fluff...
-----
Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

jwr0201 Dec 22, 2003 11:01 PM

In reply to the requests for assistance on the forum, I think that often persons ask for help from those who are more experienced to take better care of their pets. I'd be surprised if there is any animosity present, but rather anxiety in wanting to get things right the first time to ensure that their leos are safe and sound. It is correct that no one is obligated to give answers and to expect that is surely selfish indeed. However, it is nice when those who are gifted with more knowledge offer to give of themselves and help others. Personally, I think that to be able to give assistance to another person is a rare and noble thing to do. The world would be a much better place if everyone worried less about themselves and more about helping others. As for tight schedules, a few friends and I can relate...full time jobs, families and full time graduate level courses leave little time for much else. Patience and positive attitudes gets us by - there is light at the end of the tunnel! Keep the leos happy! Rob R.

aimee_s Dec 22, 2003 11:35 PM

i agree with you! i guess it's kinda the reason why i haven't even been on this site in weeks it's all the same. before i got my leo, i did about 2 months of research in random books, online care sheets, and previous discussions in the beginner lizard forum which is archived here in kingsnake (which is how i started up in here)... when i got worried or was curious about something, i posted here 2 ask... but at the same time i answered a lot of questions and directed them to google like what you're saying... and it's pretty much been the same.

another thing that gets me, is that the leo archives NOW have about 6 pages, and the older ones i have no idea where they are. i know that doesnt change the fact that ppl don't sift thru the forum 2 find answers, but some answers i need are piled away somewhere

anyways.. lol - thanks for posting blaine i agree with u~

[aimEe]
-----
0.1.0 Albino Leopard Gecko (Marlene)
0.0.2 Fire Bellied Toads (Norman & Forman)
0.2.0 African Dwarf Frogs (Hobo & Bobo)
1.0.0 Fighting Fish (Blue Balls)
0.0.2 Hermit Crabs (Kirby & Furby)
1.0.0 Black Lab / Pit Bull (Mikey)
aimee.i8.com

joeb Dec 23, 2003 04:52 AM

Reminds me of when xelda handed out her 1000th post awards and thank you speech.

LeoBeginner Dec 23, 2003 05:38 AM

Well....being the xmas season, it seems fair to thank those who've helped me out this year with advice. None of you are getting xmas presents from me, so you're going to have to take my appreciation as your gift.

Looks like I found another way out of xmas presents. muahahaha

>>Reminds me of when xelda handed out her 1000th post awards and thank you speech.
-----
Blaine

0.0.1 High Yellow Juvenile Leo (Echo)

xelda Dec 23, 2003 12:28 PM

np
-----
chickabowwow

3.2.3 leopard geckos (Rosie, Locke, Lisa, Caesar, Tommy)

Site Tools