Reptile & Amphibian Forums

my bearded dragon is about two years old. but he is very small for his age. im not sure if it is a male or female though. it is only 17 inches long but he isnt fat, but he also isnt skinny. So today for the first time i fed him a pinky mouse. he loved it ate it right up and was looking around like where is the rest... very active after eating it also. Was it wrong to give it a pinky, or would it be good to work into its diet it once a week maybe?? thanks for taking the time to read this post!
bob

Don't feed them. They're bad. Parasite ridden, etc
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Zeo)
0.2.0 Leopard Geckos (Vienna, Chomps)
1.0.0 Golden Retriever, Rocky, 10 years young

This isnt so much a problem with frozen/thawed pinkies.

They're also high in fat, and can cause fatty liver disease, one of the leading killers of beardies.
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Zeo)
0.2.0 Leopard Geckos (Vienna, Chomps)
1.0.0 Golden Retriever, Rocky, 10 years young

Fatty liver disease will not develop in an underweight dragon that is fed pinky mice to help plumping them up. If pinky mice are fed as an aid to weight gain you are ok. If they are fed as a staple diet (people do do it I have a dragon that was fed only pinkies) or on a regular basis to a dragon that is nice and plump then you have to worry about fatty liver disease. Worms of the various types (minus silks) are very high in fat also. But they are more likely to cause your dragon to stop eating greens and crickets. And meals and supers are a lot harder to digest. And if you feed waxworms your dragon may decide to hold out for them further complicating weight gain/management.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

I will probably get some not so nice postings with my message but I have three adult beardies. One that is about the same size as you are describing. I will let them have a pinky once a month as a treat. I think that once a week is too much because they are very high in fat and generally not as nutritious as other items you would feed him. We have been giving ours one pinky mouse every month for about 3-4 years now and no of them have gotten sick but again that is kind of up to the individual. I know that many people don't give them at all but my really enjoy them as a treat and I have never had sickness problems with my beardies. I would say once a month ok but not weekly.

Yes, pinkies should only be considered as a (rare) treat, as they're absolutely no good to beardies. Personally, I'd never feed my beardie pinkies, as there are plenty of other treats that are much safer and more healthy. Whatever you do, don't make pinkes part of the dragon's regular diet.

I dont feed pinkies to my dragons ever. There are SO many other things you can feed them that are so much safer and better for them, like tomato hornworms, butter worms, wax worms, super worms, feeder roaches, etc. If you want to put weight on him, try adding some wax worms to the diet. Dont feed exclusively wax worms, but theyre great for adding some fat to the diet without being toxic or causing impaction or whatever. Butterworms are also a really good source of dietary fat.

Good luck,
Jamie
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Jamie A. Stine and the Gang:

1.1 Bearded Dragons (Lancelot & Guenivere)
1.1 Cook's Tree Boas (Sharon & Ozzy)
1.0 Short Tailed O'possum (Jethro)
1.2 Guinea Pigs (Bud, Buffy, & Belinda)
1.0 Greyhound (Hank)

Save a life, adopt a retired racer!

Pinkies are good treats for beardies. They are whole prey items. Hence have a nice liver full of vitamins and minerals. And a good amount of D3. I feed my breeder females 3-4 pinkies- fuzzy mice the week after they lay eggs. Some dragons love them others don't look at them as food. But I will only use frozen thawed pinks. I know I am horrible for advocating the use of pinkies. But they are nice for fattening up dragons and dragons do not get as addicted to them as they do to worms. I like the fact that a fuzzy mouse probably contains as much mass (and a lot of fat) as probably a dozen supers. And I believe they are a ton easier to digest.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

I agree Derek!!!
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Paul Morlock
of CaptiveCreations and
Retail Sales Rep. for Sandfire Dragon Ranch

so derek how often do you feed the pinkys??? to your beardies that have not laid eggs??

If it is skinny and i think it needs to gain some weight I will feed him 1-2 a week. I Have a male dragon that wasn't doing well brumating so I warmed him up and he is getting 2 pinks a week right now. With my females I give them there crickets then once they have eaten I give them the mouse. Or give them the mouse in the am and the crickets in the pm.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

And it is only my opinion as have done no specific research on the caloric values of feeder animals but it seems to me that giving pinkie mice in moderation could be very beneficial for a bearded dragon as they are a whole food item. As grim said they have a liver full of vits and minerals. And I do think that they are digested better than mealworms or super worms. I would love to read some research on food values and what constitutes a well balanced diet for dragons beyond that of what is recommended in the books.

Also I wonder why mealworms are harder to digest than other food items. I suppose that dragons do not posses the correct enzymes to break down the chitin exoskeleton much in the same way humans do not posses the enzymes to digest cellulose plant parts like corn husk and peanut shells but cattle do.

One thing to remember about food items is that they do tend to break down the same way. A fat is digested the same way in a pinkie mouse as it is in wax worm even though it may be two different lipids. A protein whether a simple protein with few peptide bonds or a very complex polypeptide are digested and broken down into amino acids in the same way whether it is a cricket or pinkie mouse. While the enzymes may be different to break the chemical bonds holding the many amino acids together the end result is total digestion and use or storage of amino acids.

Also as far as parasites are concerned what parasites do pinkie mouse harbor as long as they are bred in clean conditions that crickets and mealworms don’t?
I have argued on this board that I do not believe that coccidia found on crickets and other food items have the ability to infest bearded dragons, as it is my belief that coccidia are very host specific. Research of my own and other sources can be provided upon request on that topic. So why the concern over pinkies being frozen and thawed ? They are fed live to snakes all the time.? I am sure there is a real simple answer I am just missing here.

Mat Price

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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

right now to read and post. i do read every now and then during the semester but i rarely have time to post with studies.

Mat Price

Ah the rigors of undergraduate studies. Lots of studying and work. I am glad those days are behind me. Hope you did well in all your classes, and that you get time to enjoy your time off.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com