Reptile & Amphibian Forums

As my second breeding season draws to a close and since all the talk of hybrids lately, I would like to put a few thoughts out there. The main problem I see is that many people breed without any regard for the bettering of the species. How often do you hear, I am working on this trait or that? Very rarely. It all seems to be; I have two carpets so heck I might as well put them together and make some babies/money. But who's going to buy them? Why not set a goal to better the animals that we have by incorporating better specimens into our collections. I think we should all strive to have top notch animals and let the crap fade away. Buy yourself a quality jungle, Irian Jaya, or coastal. Before you say oh yeah let’s put money in the pockets of the big boys; think of it this way, we all benefit in the end because we can all produce exceptional animals in the long run. Everyone will have the opportunity to own a screamer. And you know what? When everyone has them, the once big boys won't really care because I personally think that they care more about the species that they breed than the money or bragging rights. It's all about improving the captive population. Just think no more what kind of carpet is this questions, because questionable animals will not be bred. Add some winners and breed like subspecies/colors/characteristics and we can pat ourselves on the back in ten years when we make the carpet complex cleaner and better than ever. Once this happens, the more breeders the merrier because demand will increase once people see the fruit of our labors.
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http://www.moreliapythons.com

Very well said!!!!! I agree totally.

The way I see it, though, this is already happening. I, however, see carpet enthusiasts in two tiers. The top tier consists of more serious breeders who are doing just what you mentioned--breeding only pure subspecies for selected traits. The bottom tier consists mainly of newbies and people who just don't care. They stick any two animals together, and pollute gene pools just to see what they'll get. Then they sell their mutts to the next wave of newbies so that they can come on here and ask us "What kind of carpet do I have?"

BTW, I don't mean to offend anyone who hybridizes by calling them not serious or novices. This is just the manner in which I see carpet enthusiasts.

Jake

So lets teach the newbies our way of thinking and not let them be influenced by the lower tier. And for what it's worth I myself place my jungles in the upper level of the lower tier. I will be introducing several new lines into my breeding stock this year hopefully.
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http://www.moreliapythons.com

The people in the lower tier are constantly moving into the upper tier, but there's alwasy fresh people to replace them. That's the real problem IMO.

Jake

i am probablly going to get two jungles and i was wondering could i buy to ugly carpets that come from good bloodlines and breed them to get highlighter yellow and dark black animals????

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http://www.moreliapythons.com

I'm confused. You stated before that the thought of strengthening the Diamond blood by introducing Carpet blood is not a bad idea. In this post you alluded to the fact that anything that is not locality specific is, and I quote, "crap". I personally feel that there are no "crap" snakes. That's just my opinion. I've seen the least attractive parents in many species of snakes produce some of the most attractive babies I've seen. I'm not knocking your idea, but I'm not so sure I agree with your stance. No offense.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...so hopefully different people will breed traits that they like leading to more diversity, but still not producing integrades. And I agree thet the random ugly duckling can produce a nice animal, but you have much greater odds with prooven lines. Diamonds are an exception in my oppionion for two reason price and lack of prolificness.
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http://www.moreliapythons.com

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http://www.moreliapythons.com

I am in the process of building up a 2.5 colony of the best JCPs I can find. I see allot of junk sold at shows and on the internet that just turns out to be a hybrid or lackluster python. I decided that if I was going to breed them, I was going to breed the best to the best, for specific traits. I am very excited about my new project and cant wait to see what turns up in the next few years.
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"Victory is reserved for those willing to pay its price"

Well I saw that your procured a Matt Turner Jungle...now all you need is some Leary, Willich, Hamper, and Black lines and you'll be good to go. I wish you luck with your future plans and admire your wanting to produce exceptional animals.
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http://www.moreliapythons.com

Have one coming from Leary and one reserved out of the Turner/Willich breeding next year. Its going to be great. Also an IJ from Yasser that I am DIEING to get. Gonna be fun.
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"Victory is reserved for those willing to pay its price"

With stock like that you can't go wrong...
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http://www.moreliapythons.com

Breeding for certain traits is why I breed, even in my feeders.
It adds something special and keeps things monitored closely.

I find it funny as we talk about "pure lines" and traits/morphs
by breeding especialy morphs we shrink the lines even further.
Now I'm not against this, but we can't fool our selfs into believing
we are helping "pure lines"

As we talk about breeding for certain traits we are trying to create "breeds" of carpet
not pure or local animals. Especially in carpets it is up to Australians at this time
as they have the only good local animals to start with.

And for diamonds US collections will not make or break them, keep them
pure as we can, and study what is now happening.

My bit of a ramble here and there.

Mardy

Mardy

The phrase "pure lines" in the US should be replaced with stereotypical. Because I don't think many if any on us can trace ours back to their origin. Irian Jayas being the exception.
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http://www.moreliapythons.com

Mardy

Very good post, Jim. I personally, am sick of all the low grade jungles(and other snakes)that I see on the classifieds. Unscrupulous people advertise them as "SCREAMERS" or "HIGH LITER YELLOW AND BLACK" when they are butt ugly. In fact, I now tend to click on the more modest and honest sounding ads these days. I, too, am planning on working on producing the best black and gold jungles I can. I have an Al Zulich male and a Matt Turner female. Both are georgeous snakes worthy of the two advertisements above. I spent months searching and waiting for animals like them. My male is three years old now and he is georgeous. In fact, I'll try to get pics of him up later today. The female is simply stunning. IMHO, Matt Turner is probably the best breeder of high quality jungles out there. Wouldn't hesitate to buy from him. In the future, I'd love to get Leary and Willich jungles as well. Also, when I breed my pair, I'm planning on holding the neonates for maybe six months to try to judge which are keepers and hold back one(maybe two)for refining the line further. After all, since I love only the best, shouldn't I offer only the best snakes. Agaun, excellent post.

Very good post, Jim. I personally, am sick of all the low grade jungles(and other snakes)that I see on the classifieds. Unscrupulous people advertise them as "SCREAMERS" or "HIGH LITER YELLOW AND BLACK" when they are butt ugly. In fact, I now tend to click on the more modest and honest sounding ads these days. I, too, am planning on working on producing the best black and gold jungles I can. I have an Al Zulich male and a Matt Turner female. Both are georgeous snakes worthy of the two advertisements above. I spent months searching and waiting for animals like them. My male is three years old now and he is georgeous. In fact, I'll try to get pics of him up later today. The female is simply stunning. IMHO, Matt Turner is probably the best breeder of high quality jungles out there. Wouldn't hesitate to buy from him. In the future, I'd love to get Leary and Willich jungles as well. Also, when I breed my pair, I'm planning on holding the neonates for maybe six months to try to judge which are keepers and hold back one(maybe two)for refining the line further. After all, since I love only the best, shouldn't I offer only the best snakes. Agaun, excellent post.