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My 9 month old male Veiled (we've had Frank for about 2 months) lives in a ficus tree in our house. He eats about 4 or 5 crickets per day (dusted with Roboran vitamin A powder) , an occasional king mealworm and has recently started eating Chinese cabbage. We're very fond of Frank and are concerned about his recent behavior. About 4 days ago we noticed that he would sit with his mouth open, gaping. He kind of yawns from time to time and even shudders. He has started lounging on his sunning perches rather than standing tall and today I say wim rubbing his eyes against the tree branches. He is still eating - mostly the cabbage. He has two sunning lamps and two drippers in his tree as well as a humidifier and he gets sprayed twice per day.

What could be wrong with him and what should I do.

Thanks.

No much info to go with here. First, your heat lights may be too hot, just a guess because you gave no specifics as to wattage or type ore where they were placed. How tall is the cage and plant, what else is in there with him, branches, ropes, substrate? Misting or drip system in use?

As for the rubbing, this may be just a response to a recent shedding or he may have an eye infection or something in it. Any crusty material around the eye? Does he bulge his eye out occasionally? Try putting him on a plant and placing him in the shower. Let the warm water hit the side of the shower and splash on him and the plant. 20-30 minutes should be enough. Make sure you check on him while he is in the shower.

Thanks for all 3 replies,

We keep him in a large 2.5 metre ficus with other climbing branches attached. He is able to climb down some pothos vines and walk around his tree in about a 2m diam. This he usually does several times each day as he tries to climb out over the perimeter of the unescapable plastic walls. He has two light sources; one is a 100 watt sunglo spot light from exoterra on the top branches and the other is a 300 watt globe with a dimmer switch in the middle branches. I've measure the temp under his basking lamps and it's about 35degrees celscius c - which seems OK. Watering is with a dripping system I've rigged up myself from two rodent drippers with the tops cut off and some tubing with pin holes in it. Spraying is done twice daily with a hand held mister.

The pet shop told me not to worry about the gaping because they said that the chams will do this if they are contented. That sounds like rubbish to me, but the panting to regulate body temperature theory is definitely something I hadn't read anywhere before. If that's the case though, why doesn't he just move away from the heat source?

The Ficus sap may be an irritant - but it doesnt eplain the other
weird behaviour. The lounging and drooping concerns me. He just isn't his normal "straight and proud" self.

I tried to put him in the shower as I thought he may need hydration, but the water pressure was too strong and he went ballistic so I stopped that after only a few seconds. I could try it again with indirect splashing off the shower wall as suggested (that didn't occur to me), but he doesn't seem to be interested in any water from the mistings I give him. He generally tries to get away from the water spray. I'll try making it warmer as suggested. I figured that he was getting plenty of fluids from the chinese cabbage he's eating and his stools seem quite watery (is this normal).

I've also considered the vitamin inbalance. Unfortunately as I live in Prage, Czech Republic, I'm unable to get the better mineral supplements like MineAll indoor or Rep-Cal. I'm using stuff called Roboran for exotics which was recommended to me by a local herp who specialises in snakes. I'm trying to order some better supplements over the internet but I haven't found any who will do delivery to central Europe. I must gut load the crickets better! Should I give them carrots?

I just went to check on him and he's hanging half off his perch with his mouth open. I don't like it. Still concerned. David.

David,

Actually - hanging from the branch and gaping doesn't sound good.

Gaping when thermo regulating is normal... and why they don't just move is a mystery!!!!! Once in a while, I will turn off the heat source - or raise it up a bit (away from the place they are perching). This usually stops the gaping.

You are using a 300 watt bulb!?!?? Heck we use 60-75 watt incandescent bulbs for heat. That sounds quite warm. You only want the basking area to be 90-95 degrees F - and the rest of the environment (ambient temperatures) around 72-74 degrees F.

Like Lele said - if there is stringy mucus in his mouth - you are most likely facing a URI... the dreaded cold.

Are you using hot water to mist him??? Did you use warm water in the shower? Yes... deflect the water in the shower - and be sure not all the plant gets rained on. He needs a place to get out of the drip too. We microwave the water for out hand-misters... so that when we mist, the water is warm on our wrists. Not boiling - but slightly warmer than body temp - as the mist falls on it. Every cham we know runs from cold showers..... wouldn't you?

Yeah... that pet store needs some new info. Contented chams don't gape!! *LOL*

Lounging and drooping sound like heat.... and the runny stools could be the cabbage. Switch to mustard greens; collard greens - or bok choy. You can offer small chunks of some fruits too.

Yes... give the crickets carrots, yams, yellow or orange squash, pumpkin. For vitamin C, give them an orange slice once in a while too. For dry food, offer good fish food (flakes or koi bits). You can feed them grains too... oatmeal; soybean meal; rice bran; flax; but stay away from corn - it is empty calories.

Turn off the high heat - see if he regains his composure and stops gaping. Move it further away, if needed... it's worth a try.

Let us know what happens...
-----

Thanks for all of the advice. Will switch him to bok choy from tomorrow. Will get my hands on some minerall from a friend in California. Will heat mister and check the temp under the basking spots again.

Cheers and happy holidays. David.

Do you have a vet? Not knowing the Czech Republic very well (LOL!) I do know that Germany, Poland and Austria border it - right? So, depending on where you are this link might be helpful. Scroll all the way down and you will see other countries listed. This may not be feasible for you but it might be worth a call.

Societies: www.anapsid.org/societies/index.html
Vets: www.anapsid.org/vets/index.html

Will the UK ship to you? Jamie Whitehouse posted a site awhile back (I have it somewhere but haven’t found it yet). Have you done searches for suppliers (you probably have...) keep us posted.

lele

>>Thanks for all of the advice. Will switch him to bok choy from tomorrow. Will get my hands on some minerall from a friend in California. Will heat mister and check the temp under the basking spots again.
>>
>>Cheers and happy holidays. David.
-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

Hi - if dusting with only a Vit A he may not be getting right amount of other nutrients unless you are doing some real good gutloading.

If he is gaping while basking it is perfectly normal - it's like a dog panting, this is one way they regulate their temps. Does the inside of his mouth look clean? No mucus or sound? As for the "yawning" and shudder - does he do this when he is dark or gets dark right away? They will sometimes display just to remind you who's boss - LOL! This usually includes puffing up as well.

Don't misunderstand, I am not minimizing your concern at all! It's just that sometimes they do weird things (well, weird to US!) that are quite normal for chams. But as Morgana pointed out you need to provide a bit more info for more specific help.

Just my thoughts....

Here's a link to eye problems in chams

Happy Solstice!
lele & Luna

>>My 9 month old male Veiled (we've had Frank for about 2 months) lives in a ficus tree in our house. He eats about 4 or 5 crickets per day (dusted with Roboran vitamin A powder) , an occasional king mealworm and has recently started eating Chinese cabbage. We're very fond of Frank and are concerned about his recent behavior. About 4 days ago we noticed that he would sit with his mouth open, gaping. He kind of yawns from time to time and even shudders. He has started lounging on his sunning perches rather than standing tall and today I say wim rubbing his eyes against the tree branches. He is still eating - mostly the cabbage. He has two sunning lamps and two drippers in his tree as well as a humidifier and he gets sprayed twice per day.
>>
>>What could be wrong with him and what should I do.
>>
>>Thanks.
cham eyes

-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

The sap in Ficus trees is an eye irritant, that could explain the rubbing.

I'd give him calcium with vitamin D via lightly dusted crickets 3X a week minimum. This can't hurt, and if it does solve the problem you could avoid a serious problem.

I wouldn't rely on the information the pet store gives you unless they have lots of experience specifically with reptiles. I'd recommend you speak to a vet that is familar with reptiles --- especially if the "shakes" behavior continues after you've given him calcium. Good luck!