Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, my 3 uromastyx arrived today. For those that didn't follow my other posts, these lil guys were shipped out last Saturday as a USPS Express package and ended up being lost. They arrived today around 11:30am. As you can see by the first 5 photos, the box was ridiculously small. The Gatorade Bottle used for comparison is 32oz and measures 3.5" at the base and is 8" tall. Each uromastyx was 6-8" long. Also, as can be seen in the photos, the box had not one air hole in it. I opened the box immediately just in case by some miracle they had survived. In side I found a piece of burlap (sp?) cloth that had been stapled close. I felt the bag for movement and to my amazement, I could feel a very weak breath from one of them. I immediately opened the bag and set it in the enclosure. To my amazement, the single little mali that had come was still alive, but barely. The other two were DOA, but I'm pretty sure if they had arrived one day earlier, they would have lived. The last photo is the saddest. These are the 1.1 niger's that came. They are pictured on the cloth they came in. In the photo, the cloth is completely opened, but you can see in picture 4 or 5 I believe, how big it was when closed up. Three Uromastyx were shipped in this container, each one was 6-8" long. Do people think before they do things anymore? I'm so happy the mali lived though and have decided the name 'miracle' is quite appropriate. He's already checking out his new home and if I didn't know about his journey here, I'd have assumed he was perfectly fine. I'll include photos of him and his enclosure in a reply to this post. One question though, the enclosure he is in is 30"L x 18"D x 12"H, is a 150W Basking Spot Bulb too much for this enclosure? I bought it this morning and can take it back, but they only had 75W left in this style. They do have 100W infrared bulbs too. So, which should I go with?
-Brian

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.pl?photo=117525
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http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.pl?photo=117528
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i glad your little mali made it that box is horrible, the box that my 3mnth old babied beardie came in was at least twice as large as that box , and my Saharan Uro's shipping box had to be larger than four of those put together and he came alone.
Sorry for the lose of your Saharan Pair
is there any kind of law about how large a box containing a live animal has to be?

OK, since I bummed you all out with the previous post, here's a little something to bring you back up. The first photo is Miracle's enclosure. The light on the right is his basking light, the light on the left is his night light (75W black light), and the light in the back is his UV light. The pet shop had a couple neat little things I bought him. The cave on the left seemed perfect for a uromastyx as it will give him a nice, dark, tight area to hide in. The other thing on the right is a little platform that he can climb up if he wants to get closer to the basking light. I did have it right under the basking light, but after about an hour of that it was hot to the touch, WAY too hot, so I moved it off to one side. The second picture is the little miracle mali himself. Cute little guy and I gotta say, now that he's warmed up, he's actually showing a little color. I'll be sure to keep everybody updated on this little fella. At the moment I plan on building a nice 4.5'L x 2'D x 18"H enclosure for him and three little girls to keep him occupied. The next three will be coming from a MUCH more reliable and well known source. Enjoy!
-Brian

Enclosure- http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.pl?photo=117539

Hi Brian,

I am so very sorry about the pair..I too agree that
overnight is the only way to go..As far as the box
goes WAY to small is right..
Yes, on a much brighter note, Miracle is just what
he is..Arriving in too small a box, traveling in the
holiday week..Now we all can say, Miracles can happen
& make it & Miracle did!!!

Joan

HEY BRIAN-
THAT WAS ABSOLUTLY A NIGHTMARE! I AM CURRENTLY ARRANGING A SHIPMENT OF 1.1 ORNATES & 1.2 SOMALIANS. BECAUSE OF THE SAME FEARS YOU ACTUALLY WENT THROUGH , I'M WAITING FOR THE "HOLIDAYS" TO END. I'VE LOOKED AT YOUR SET-UP, IT'LL DO FINE. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOUR ON THE RIGHT PATH. AS YOU'LL FIND OUT, THERE IS AN ABUNDANCE OF INFO OUT THERE. KEEP LEARNING & ENJOY YOUR MIRICLE.
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JDBLACKDOG

Dang shame for sure ! I won't bother commenting on the box, pretty obvious. But I think shipping around the holiday was a terrible idea.
On a happier note, thank God little Miracle, made it, tough little cookie. Bet he will live like a king/ Queen in your house, after this tradgic journey !

Good luck Miracle, and Brian have a "Happier" New Year!

Eve

That is so sad. Have you possibly checked with your local humane society to see if charges can be brought against these people? I would highly recommend someone pay for this loss of life. It was totally unnecessary and could have been avoided had someone down the line did their job.

Did you get $ back for the ones that died? I sure hope so! I'd plaster these peoples name everywhere to make sure they no longer can sell uros and do this anymore! Who knows how many others have died in this way?

so sorry for the loss
Renee

Seeing that the uros were lost in shipment for almost a week and that both parties agreed to shipping during the holiday season.

the fact that both parties agreed to ship over the holidays does NOT make it okay to ship three LIVE animals in a teeny tiny little box without a single air hole in it.

That alone warrents the SPCA being notified.

No one is blaming the dealer for the shipping company losing the animals...but the poor care (no air holes, too small of a box) and packaging originated with them. There is no denying that fact.
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Kim

the bag inside the box was STAPLED shut!!
With 3 good sized uro's jammed inside that box, could you imagine the damage that could of potentially been done to those animals by those staples if they had of managed to pry any of them open while struggling inside that bag?
The thought makes me cringe.
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Kim

Life cannot be taken for ganted, and there should be consequenses for the negligence of the dealer. They should know how to ship animals properly, and youre right about the likelyhood of this not being the only occurance. Theyve probably killed MANY reptiles. The reptile trade overall is sick, and good people in this buisness are few and far between. Not to mention that the good ones are truly, good, caring animal lovers, and the poor ones are down right evil, and are strictly concerned about profit, rather than the welfare of the animals. I have yet to see an inbetween.

First, let me say I am sorry for your loss, totally unnecessary had the animals been boxed properly and not shipped during the holidays...for future reference for any of us thinking about having an animal shipped, make sure you think about the following:

1. Adequate size box, but not so big that the animal gets tossed around, each animal packed separately in snake bags, animals then put in a hard plastic box with holes on all sides, cushioning in the interior and exterior box,styro lining, air holes in the box, heat packs if necessary, box clearly marked this end up, fragile, LIVE harmless reptiles, on all four sides, bottom and top. ( I use neon signs in three colors so they will be very noticable)

2. Never ship live animals around Christmas, it is an accident waiting to happen. I won't do it and I won't have anything shipped to me.

3. Buy from reputable breeders or from small breeders who are familiar with animal shipping.

4. Ask questions about shipping to see if the person has a lot of shipping experience. If not, you as the buyer need to inform the seller how it needs to be done.

5. I have already sent a complete shipping box, heat packs and detailed instructions to individuals I have purchased an animal from because they did not have a clue.

6. If you want to ship the safest possible way, use Delta Dash. It is expensive, but it is airport to airport.

A beardie breeder has an excellent page for shipping animals. Check it out. www.tncbeardies.com/Packing.htm

I hope Miracle lives a long and happy life and that you are able to get a few more uros from a source that knows how to insure their safe arrival. I don't ship a lot, but I make every effort to insure the animals well-being when I pack them. Have a happy holiday and celebrate your own Miracle.

Pam

I'm not trying to blame one person or another, but just think that its worth looking into to ensure it doesn't happen again. I feel that by bringing it to someone's attention, that it could potentially help from future deaths. The animals were obviously not packed well as we all agree on, so that alone is enough to have this pet place checked out.

Also thank you for the info on packing Pam . That is good information for all of us to have to ensure our pets are shipped safely whether your the one doing the shipping or receiving.

As for the poster that didn't agree with my post, I have taken a pet store to court and won for neglect of uros. From my experience, I feel that there should be more laws for reptiles (currently there aren't any) and any exotic animals. They are living, breathing creatures just as furry pets are and I feel they need the same care. So yes, I am harsh, only because until more people start stepping up to the plate and doing something about these things, it will never stop. Had it been a live puppy, I guarantee someone would be getting sued!

If we want to fault anyone, I feel that all were at fault. The store for shipping so poorly, and possibly the person who purchased them only because I feel they should have waited till after the busy holiday season.
But I think that the lesson was learned, he at least got his money back, and hopefully Miracle will live a long and healthy life. Miracle obviously has a very caring, loving owner.

Not here to flame anyone, just really makes me mad what goes on with animals in general. I have devoted so much of my time (which I have little of taking care of several foster kids as well as my own),and money (of which my dh can't work enough hours to support) helping the endless amount of unwanted and mistreated pets (dogs, cats, reptiles, whatever) that it gets to me.

Wishing a happy new years to all you uro owners!
Renee