Reptile & Amphibian Forums

as my snake is getting bigger so is his food, and I am switching over to freshly killed to aviod injury. what methods do some of you use to kill the rat?

The best is to have it done at the store before you bring it home. If they don't provide that service you will have to. First off hold it firmly by the tail, put your hand behind the neck hand pin it against the table,floor and pull the tail. This will sever the spine. You might want to wear gloves if you are new to it. You can put it in a bag and hit it against the floor or wall, you can hit it with a heavy object. There are many ways to do it. Give it a try and you will find a way that suits you. It just takes practice and being secure with doing it. Again check with your pet store, alot of them will do it for you. good lock

why would you have the petstore do it? it will be cold by the time it gets home. And why is the post named filling rats? i assume you meant killing rats?

Just take a screw driver handle, hold the rat by its tail and wack it hard on his head. we will start spazaming really fast and about 30 seconds later he quits moving. Dont worry, the first hit he cant feel (if ou do it hard enough) becuase the handle will break the skull, split the brain and hes dead. His heart will stop pumping after 3-4 seconds. wait till he stops moving around to give him to your snake.

Why not take the screwdriver and put it on his neck to pin him. Then give the tail a solid yank. "whacking" is not humane sorry no if ands or buts about it. Cervical dislocation if done right the heart stops instantly not even one more beat no connection from the brain to the organs. No pain receptors running back into the brain either. "whacking" is a black eye to the industry. It is a cruel practice. It is like hanging someone to execute them. You hang someone 95% of the time they will die of a broken neck (cervical disslocation type of deal). Easy and painless. 5% of the time their necks won't break and they suffocate. Where as lethal injection will kill a person every time. If not they are unconcious from the sedatives administered first.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

How is it inhumane? They die instantly, there nerves still work. The "dislocation" stuff you speak of, seems alot more difficult than just hitting them on he head really hard. What if the person does it wrong? VERY PAINFUL for the rat i would assume if it doesnt die instantly. Its easier to break the skull and split the brain with the bone fragments than to "dislocate its spinal cord"

do what you please but im going to keep using the hitting on head technique. its alot easier and not as time consuming.

p.s. When you pin the rat down, with the force you put against it, you are essentially suffocating it, becuase the throat it closed (from being pinned to a table) so he is being suffocated before death occurs. When you hit him the head, he dont know its coming and its painless.

if you do cervical dislocation several times you can pick the rodent up put it down and then get its head easily and pull the tail in one swoop. I will not argue the flaws of whacking a rat over the head. It is not 100% all the time, no where will you find a humane society saying that whacking a rat over the head is a humane method. Want to know the two ways that hospitals and other research institutes kill rodents during research? Cervical dislocation and hypoxia from co2. No where have I seen a hospital or any other research institute advocate whacking them, not even for neural research where they could just use a guilotine, they still co2 them first even though it might have some effect on the work. And if you do not crush the medula the rat could remain alive. You can argue for the way you do it but it is just barbaric and inhumane.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

A dead rat is a dead rat. I dont care what you or hospitals think. Im sticking with the head whacking. Im not trying to do research on the mouse, im trying to feed my snake. maybe you dont remember the K.I.S.S. prinicple. i suggest you use it, and just remember, FEEDING SNAKEs, NOT RESEARCH!

Clubbing it over the head does as good of a job as humane euthanasia? Just want you to clarify this. I mean come on now man you sound like an idiot. Just my opinion. All animals deserve to die humanely even if the only reason they die is to feed a snake.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

compare a small rodents skull with a dogs skull....a rats skull requires very little pressure to break. And when you Hit the rat on the head, you know its dead becuase:
A:Its nerves go crazy
B:It stops going crazy
C:Blood Comes Through its Ears/nose/and its eyes turn a pale orange

i watch my snake eat the rat. and have you ever had first hand account of the "living dead rats"?? id like some sources for this happening.

so would letting the snake suffocate a live mouse be more humane than wacking it on the head? cmon, as soon as you wack it does not feel a thing.

No I do not think letting a snake kill a rodent is humane. It is inhumane but nature. if you want to take over for nature and kill the mouse yourself why not do it in an accepted humane way and not some barbaric way? just talk of whacking a rat is disgusting to people and is a reason why peta and those other wonderful groups get support of people on banning reptiles.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

who the heck are you to say whats humane or inhumane? who are you to tell people its barbaric? just becuase you come on here with a "breeders sense" doesnt mean jack squat.

Let people do what they want. Im not pushing my ideas on you, but your surely are pushing them on other people. I told the original poster on what i thought, and what i thought to you. You come in hear preaching that its bad and all.

Your like one of those door to door mormons, you dont let up until someone agrees with you.

just forget about it.

Seriously guys... Its a rat. Personally, I think it should be humane, but I wouldn't do the tail thing, I'd be afraid to pin it on the ground. I don't have a snake big enough to feed a rat too, so I've never had to kill it. The rats I have seen killed were picked up by the tail with tweezers, and then swung to wach their heads on the corner of a table. Very effective means of breaking the neck. If I ever get a bigger snake, that is what I will do to kill rats. If I were a rat, I'd be scared to death when someone pinned my head to the table.... sounds like it takes practice. If you can do it, that's superb, but I'd be afraid to try. Let the people here have some options, there's more than one way to skin a cat/kill a rat.

i usually grab the mouse by his tail and swing him so his head hits the edge of a table. once you get good at it you can do 10 mice at a time. five in each hand.

slap i second that. lol ive killed 20 pinkies in one shot, and 2 mice in one shot. it was funny the way you wrote your post. i dont think you were trying to be funny, but it was . lol!

you guys are noobs. i can do 10 mice in each hand. they usually twitch for a few minutes because they dont all get a nice clean wack to the back of the skull but as long as theyre not acting normal it counts. we actually have competitions in my town. if you can do 10 mice per swing in each hand you can get any girl.

Rat filling, is that fresh or canned? Check isle 10 next to the frozen mousecyles.

thanks for the ideas

if you cant kill a rat with a wahck on the head with a screw driver handle, you seriously need to start lifting weights or invest in C02 (5$ per 20oz)

This once again is a VERY humane way of killing them as they pass out and do not feel a thing. You can buy a small tank of CO2 and use tubing to put into a rubbermaid box with no holes, and in a few seconds, you got dead rodents. Easy, cheap, humane, nothing better then that.
Jason
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where would you find CO2 to buy, a hardware store or something like that??? i have to switch my baby over to prekilled and just can't bring my self to wack the rats or yank their tails. thanks in advance

~dana~

Paint ball supply store is a good place to get relatively small quantities. like what you will need. for larger supplies you could go to welding supply places. You can also use dry ice but cylinders are much more convient.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

the downside is if you recently gasses the rodent, it stil has CO2 inside of it. You have to freeze the rodent for a couple days for it to be safe. So you have to do it a couple days before and freeze it.

What??? So the thing is loaded with CO2, it is carbon dioxide. What does that do to the snake? Give it gass?
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

Dude, your a moron. you shouldnt be keeping snakes if you feed them fresh rats pumped with C02 still in their lungs.

Freeze them for a 2 days, thaw them out, then feed. This will insure the C02 is gone, and it will kill any parasites.

Ok I am a moron you got me. What will co2 in a rats lungs do to the snake? There is a bunch more co2 in the rats blood and tissue than in the lungs, this is the cause of death. What will co2 do to a snake? I had never heard it is harmful. Got any documentation that will say co2 in a rats system is bad for a snake? co2 is carbon dioxide and your snake has plenty in its lungs. What is it in soda that gives it carbonation? I think it might be co2 hence carbonation. co2 is not harmful unless inhaled in very large quantities in which case it causes blood cells to absorb more co2 and no oxygen. hence there is no o2 for the animals tissues. Oh and if you freeze them their lungs empty of co2 after a few weeks but what about all that co2 in the blood, and body tissues? where does that go? does it magically dissapear? it doesn't diffuse out for probably 6 months or so. that is simple mass transfer. but hey I am a moron and co2 is bad for snakes digestive track I guess, maybe we should all stop drinking soda then because co2 might be harming us. sorry i will run away and lick my wounds and try to educate myself about what is good for my snakes.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

I just tried to kill a rat the way you described. I pinned down its head with a ruler...he was squirming and screeching...then i grabbed its tail and pulled...pulled the damn thing right off!! Well not the whole tail, actually just the skin...it's tail bones are still attached, and the thing is still alive. I think it's front is paralyzed or something due to the funny shape its back is now in, but it's back legs have him running in circles whacking its bloody tail all over my cage, mouth gaping open and chest heaving!! I don't even want to touch him now, what am I supposed to do!?!? Thanks for the wonderful advice on how to humanely kill a rat....but next time, I think I'll just throw him in a pillow case and swing it on the ground like usual...

Never heard of such a thing. I have to admit I am dying of laughter, hoping you are joking. I like screwdrivers they are firmer. I have never pulled a tail off. Grab the base of the tail. Seriously it works but guess you have to see it done.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

dying of laughter? you think its funny to see an animal in pain? you just called me barbaric for killing a rat swiftly as possible and easily as possible. Your method has its draw backs (weak tail skin). Mine is easy. And hardly ever has survivors.

Id still like to see proof that some still "kick" back into life when they have been beaten over the head. I really would like that.

Jesus christ...people who think a skill and talent and science is needed to kill a friggin mouse...get a life.

put it in a plastic bag and wack it against the dam floor...jesus christ.

There is a person that has said it has happened (rat waking up) in this thread. I have taken a rat by the tail and whipped him into the floor. The thing twitched and stopped breathing. I offered it up to a snake that was off feed, in my earlier days. I came back in about 30 minutes the rat wasn't moving the snake hadn't eaten. I came back 20 minutes later to find a rat walking around the cage. Glad I checked again. My whole point was that cervical dislocation is a good method for mice and rats (under 200 grams). It is a method that takes a little time to get used to. But once you have done it a few times properly you get the hang of it. The mouse is picked up by the tail. Placed front feet onto the ground, at the same time an object is placed on their neck (I like my hemostats) and the base of the tail is swiftly pulled. Base being a key word, if not the base you can rip off the tip of the tail. You get to know the feel of the pop of the neck. The thing twitches for about 30 seconds and then stops. The only thing of note is sometimes the rat bleeds from its mouth/nose. It is a simple procedure that can be done quickly, and when done properly there is no chance of suffering that is all my point was. You continue to argue about whacking and how you can do 10 mice at a time. That is sick and disgusting, and shows little compasion for the animal. If you were to "whack" 10 mice at a time there is no way you can garenttee that all 10 will get a clean blow that kills them. just because the brain might be mashed does not exclude the possibility of pain. There is no garanttee that a whack will kill the rodent and just not render it unconscious. That was my point, that is it. If you need to off that many mice go and get a co2 container and gas them. and i know then you have to freeze them. because co2 is bad for snakes and it just magically leaves the animals frozen tissue. are you arguing that people reading about whacking 10 mice at a time are not disgusted by the brutality of such acts. that they do not view such acts as being brutal and inhumane? if it works for you then continue to use it fine. but you at least have to realize that the idea is sickening to people. cervical disslocation, when done properly, is fast easy and painless every time. gassing is always fast easy and painless. whacking there is no assurance that it is fast easy and painless. rodents have even been known to wake up after being whacked improperly. maybe you do whack them well enough not every person has that ability. it takes a person that is slightly sick to blugeon an animal to death, even if it is just a mouse. a psycholigist would probably say that people that do such things and brag about them are murderers and violent thugs in the making. that is all my point was think of the way people will look at what you type. and i thought the post was funny as it read as a joke to me. if the rodent's tail was pulled improperly it would snap the skin would not pull off (from experience), if the animal was paralyzed it would be from the neck down all or nothing. the weakest connection of the spinal column is that of the first cervical vertabrae to the skull. hence this is always the place of disslocation. so if the spinal cord was torn it would be there. also the running around could have been the after effects of the disslocation. that happens, they can run, jump, breath, and bite you. it is release of action potentials that is all. do what is best for you. i will continue to advocate the use of cervical disslocation, as it is recomended by animal use and wellness committees all accros the country. that is proof enough to me that it is a humane way. you saying that whacking is always safe and no pain is suffered is not sufficient for me. go find it documented somewhere.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

how abot you go find it for me, since you brought it up? also, what are the wellness groups you are talking about? surely they arent made up.

Every hospital, university, and private company that does any research that involves animals has a animal use and wellness board. This is to protect the animals well being. I have dealt with them. They can be quite the pain in the but. They are made up of people from the research industry and of people from the general public in general. most research is funded by the federal government and they do not want any animals to suffer.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

where are the cited resources?

there are plenty trust me. i asked for yours saying whacking is humane. i don't feel like refinding the ones from last night. type in rat euthanzia into google you will find them. i don't need to prove to you that cervical disslocation is humane. i have done it for work. and dealt with animal use and wellness committees at two different organizations. so i know the accepted standards. you think yours is humane go find something that says it.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

sounds like you have no hard facts. It doesnt matter this thread it dead, leave it at that.

Okay, okay...it didn't just happen now, but it has happened to me before. Actually it's happened atleast four times before that I can come up off the top of my head. Your method worked great for me when I was feeding mice, but when I had to graduate to rats, I had a real hard time getting the job done. Using a ruler wasn't the problem because it held the rat's head down nicely. Where I grabbed the tail didn't matter either...If you hold the tip, you only pull the tip off, but when I grabbed the base I did actually pull all of the skin off the entire tail.

In the end, I have found that for killing more fragile prey like mice your method works nicely. I have not had success even one time trying to kill sturdier rats this way. Though I am positive that you are more skillful at this art than I, there still remains a certain human error by "stupid" "dumb" "small penised" people (I guess that means me?)

I know that the picture of whacking a rat to death is gruesome to some. But if they could have seen that f***king rat flopping around the cage like that I'm sure they'd have a similar image of your method.

The point is that there is nothing "humane" about killing any living creature. Period. Those of us that own snakes that must eat prey and choose to be responsible and prekill prey, usually are already being more humane than the act of constriction by snake....unless you grab the rat and squeeze the living s*** out of it... My method of whacking a rat is more humane that if I were to attempt cervical-dislocation, however my method still may not be as humane as YOUR attempt at cervical-dislocation.

I'm rambling cuz it's late and I can't sleep. I don't even know why...my bp is on a hunger strike anyway...lol

Thank you for being civil about your reply. I just finished reading the entire post and found your "rambling" to be quite refreshing. Some people on this forum need to be more open to other people ideas...

Thank you again for your civility.

There is more than one way to skin a cat/kill a rat!!!

-Jeremy