Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello everyone, I live in the Denver, CO area and there is this Reptile store that just got 6 hatchling dwarf caimens in and they are like 8 inches long, I have wanted a caimen for as long time now and This could be the time. My question is I was going to buy one of them but What type of housing ( water, heat etc) should i use for a baby??? i asked the store about the housing and they replied by saying " a 10 or 20 gallon" and that was it...could someone send me a ,little list of all the things i would NEED to keep a baby caimen. thanks a lot!!!!!

Eric

It doesnt matter whether it is a gator or a dwarf caiman, they're all illegal in Denver.

I know that doesn't help you much in figuring out how to house one... But honestly, if you can't legally keep it - DONT. It's bad enough as it is...

You will find most of the information you are looking for here: http://crocodilian.com/paleosuchus/

I don't blame ya - Scales N Tails doesn't know a whole lot about crocodilians.

Yeah i agree, they should stick with Snakes.

Well they might illegal but there are atleast 3 stors that have them on a regular basis and hasnt had any problems.

It's illegal to OWN them in Denver.

Ok I understand, Well Do you know of someone or someplace that I could buy a caimen from. The dwarf caimens at Scales N tails are all wild caught, and plus they are $300. Thanks.

Eric

You're not going to find a true captive bred Cuvier's for less than $300.

I was at Scales N Tails last weekend - and the price was $269. It already went up?

Check the Kingsnake Classifieds. I saw some on there for $150 the other day, and you can pick one up for around $200 any day of the week.

Most sellers will require you to disclose the legality of crocodilians in your area.

So, it illeagal in all of Col. or just Denver. My wife and I are moving to Summit County ( Kestone area) this summer, and we have a 3 foot a. alligator. Can you let me know.

Alligators are illegal ANYWHERE in Colorado.

You CAN own a Caiman, as long as city/county ordinance allows it.

Crocodilians are illegal anywhere in the Denver area.

do they allow permits, if so how do I obtain one, Where are you getting all this info so I can look up this stuff. I really do not want to get rid of her. I have had her since a hatchling. She is leash trained and even plays with the dog.

Colorado doesn't allow any permits as far as I know for alligators. Although there is an alligator farm here, so they might know more about ways to get one. Here is their address http://www.gatorfarm.com

Permits are issued for scientific or educational purposes.

Colorado Gators were "grandfathered". They've had gators for over 16 years, and were keeping gators prior to the outlawing of ALL gators.

I'll do some digging, and see if I can't find the official reg on this.

Here you go:

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Education/CoExisting_with_wildlife/exotic_pets_prohibited_wildl.asp

Legal Non-Mammals

These are the non-mammal species that are legal to own in Colorado:

All tropical and non-native subtropical turtles. Caimens are legal. Alligators and crocodiles require a license.

All other species of native and exotic wildlife require a license from either the Division of Wildlife or the state Department of Agriculture. To have or import one of these species, you must get a license first. You can get importation permits from the Department of Agriculture after obtaining a license from the Division of Wildlife.

For more information, contact the following agencies:

Wildlife Questions
Colorado Division of Wildlife - Mark Leslie
317 W. Prospect, Fort Collins, CO 80526
(970) 472-4300

Alternative Livestock, Importations, Humane Care or Pet Questions
Department of Agriculture - State Veterinarians
700 Kipling St., Suite 4000, Lakewood, CO 80215
(303) 239-4161

Human Health Questions
Colorado Department of Public Health - John Pape
4300 Cherry Creek Dr. South, Denver, CO 80222
(303) 692-2700

First let me say that I hope the store you are talking about is Scales'N Tails. If's Reptile Haven, walk away now. I only went into Haven once and the air stunk of dirty rodent cages, and the majority of their reptile cages were dirty and over crowded. I will never go back again. On the other hand I have made many purchases at Scales and all of their cages are kept clean, with a very low amount of crowding in cages. The quality of their stock is also more apparent. Sorry don't mean to bash a company, but I like to steer purchases to the people who actually take better care of their animals
Also Rich-the manager at the Northglenn store will help you setup a much more proper cage then a ten or twenty gallon tank. I also brought a small smooth front from Rich about a year and a half ago. That 8" caiman will out grow a 75 gallon tank in less then a year. So be prepared. Also he will do much better when given a lot of hiding places, they are shy critters.
I keep my water set 82 F, with a daytime basking spot of 100 F.

Scales N Tails has a small quantity of Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman in stock. Here is the average growth rate for a Cuvier's:

3 months: 30cm (11.8", 95g.
6 months: 35cm (13.7", 150g.
12months: 42cm (16.5", 250g.
2 yrs: 53cm (20.8", 570g.
4 yrs: 77cm (30.3", 4 kg.
8 yrs: 94cm (37.0", 3.6 kg.
12 yrs: 90cm (35.5", 6.1 kg. (poss. female measurement)
20 yrs: 118cm (46.5", 11.5 kg.

My point... I house an 18" Smooth Fronted Caimain in a 75 gal aquarium (48w x 24d x 18h). It has plenty of space.

A 8" Cuvier's is not going to outgrow a 75 gal aquarium in less than a year.

Bigger IS always better... But not necessarily in the case of a small timid caiman.

I have seen these growth rates and similar ones before published. But I haven't seen the same amount of growth in my caiman. In Sept. of 2002 I brought my smooth front home, he measures 13" from snout to tip of tail. As of this date he is 30". Now this is a big jump in growth versus what I've read else where. It maybe a fluke, but I wouldn't tell anyone that they can just keep a smooth front or dwarf caiman in a relativily small tank for very long, since higher growth rates can happen.
My caiman eats 1 or 2 small mice/rats every 3 or 4 days. So I know he's not just getting overfed.

The thread was about Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman (Paleosuchus palpebrosus). You are posting about a Smooth Fronted Caiman (Paleosuchus trigonatus).

Since P. trigonatus grows to a larger max size than P. palpebrosus, it would be safe to assume the grow faster as well.

Yes I agree with you, I have been to Reptilian Haven one time and I Havent gone back since. Scales N tails is a good store for buying snakes, I think I have bought about 12 snakes from the North Store, but it seems like they arent too knowldegable about caimens, I called them on the phone and asked about the caimens and one guy said they were captive bred, which surprised me, and then Rich said they are wild caught farmed babies from Guyana. So I dont know!!! but thanks for the info.

"Rich said they are wild caught farmed babies from Guyana."

This would most likely be the truth. There are VERY few USCBB Cuvier's Dwarfs available - and the most likely will NOT be sold at a pet store in Denver.

Do you know of someone or someplace that i would be able to buy a baby caimen from. I dont want to buy a wild caught dwarf caimen and plus they are $300. Thanks.

Eric