Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I’ve always had the opinion that everyone has an opinion and that no opinion is any less valid than the next. Now just because it is valid it does not mean that it is a good opinion.
I also wonder why there is a need for all these chelonian care books and come to the conclusion that the need is there because many if not all are based on opinion. To me that opinion is one person’s perspective on the care and maintenance of chelonians and because of this there is a need to obtain as many perspectives to form a decent decision. (notice I didn’t say ‘right’ decision?)
I thought I’d mention this because of a book that was mentioned earlier. It was written by a writer who I think is a good writer but I have to question some of the language he uses. The point that many of his opinions are based on unpublished experimentation is brought up a few times. I know a few other authors that seem to do this to add credibility to what they are saying. I have to wonder if the experimentation is a carefully controlled experiment or just an observation based on a specific pattern. There’s nothing wrong with this but I think in all fairness if it the opinion is based on an experiment that has not been published and verified that it should not be presented as fact or implied to be as such... (just a thought)
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Ed
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Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Totally agree Ed. The phrase: "it has been my experience" is great to use to describe one's study's opinions. And i think that experiences vary naturally from one climate to another,ie.utdoors all year round, or indoor winter pens? The variables in any situation can be quite different.

Ed, it seems to me you are having trouble focusing in on what you are trying to say. I really can't tell what it is you are trying to get across here. "I’ve always had the opinion that everyone has an opinion.." what does that mean, exactly? Are all opinions really valid? Does someone who beleives that Santa Claus is the creator of all life on the planet earth have a valid opinion? How about someone who thinks tigers would remain in perfect health if you kept them in a cage and feed them nothing but marshmallows and chocolate syrup? Is that a valid opinion? Again, I don't understand what you are saying.

I do agree with you that we should try to get as many different opinions and beliefs as possible to look at so we can make a better and more informed plan in keeping our animals healthy. But we can't always have a guarantee that the person's opinions are actually based on fact, so we must use common sense and look at the bigger picture.

Of course most people write articles or books based on their opinions. What else would they base the writings on? What they DON'T believe? Someone else's opinion? The opinion of their minister? I'm not trying to be mean here and I'm not attacking you, I just wish I could understand better what you are trying to say.

You say that some writers put unpublished experiments in their books and that is bad. The thing is, just because someone has their findings published and supposedly "verified" does not make it factual. No matter what a person finds in his/her personal studies, there will be people who say "yup, that is so true," and there will be plenty who say, "No, no, no. Wrong!" If we waited for so-called "proof" of something, we would never be able to read one word of what a person has found out about chelonians because there would be nothing but bickering about whether it is true or not. If someone wanted to write a book about the natural diet of zebras, he would go to Africa and find some zebras and follow them around to see what they ate. He would see that they ate grasses and plants. Then he would ask other people who have observed zebra what they have seen the zebras eat, and they would tell him "grasses and plants." Then he would write in his book that zebras eat grasses and plants and he would state it as fact. He wouldn't say, "UHH, I think maybe it is possibe, but it is just my opinion you understand, that maybe, just maybe, zebras eat grass and stuff like that." And that is the way it should be because as far as he knows, it IS a fact. I say to the writers of books on any subject...tell me what your observations are, I have the ability to distinguish fact from fiction MOST of the time by using common sense. If a bunch of people all seem to be saying the same thing, chances are good it is factual. The only way to be really positive is to do your own experiments.

I can't speak for Ed, but this is what I understand him to mean. First of all, everyone does have thier own opions that are valid to them. Therefore that makes them valid in thier opion! Does this mean the are absolute in thier validity? The answer is both yes and no! They maybe to them and to other like minded people and not to others who think differently.
I agree that we should hear others opions and then form our own. The question then becomes "Is our opion valid?".
I hope I have cleared this up a little for you! If I have can you clear it up for me!?!?!?

By the way I love to read other peoples opions in books. However just because it is published doesn't mean it is fact. It only means that a publisher thaught he could sell it.

.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

"Don't make me come back there!"

Believe me when I say that was nice.
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Ed
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Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

questions about my Redfoot. I must say I think it unfair
to say something like this to the other poster. Remember,
everyone has their opinion. Without it, the world would
be quite dull.

Ease up a little! We are all here for the same reason.

Linda

I have faith that you will actually give an intelligent response to a post on this board. Something besides, "you're on drugs!" Or, "you need medication!" Or your favorite, "you're wrong because I said so even though I have no evidence."

Yup, I truly believe you will be able to do it someday. I'm not putting money on it, mind you, but maybe next year or maybe the next, or maybe in 2015, something like that.

If you offer me the same courtesy you just might get the response you’re looking for but then again I’m willing to bet you are getting the exact response you are looking for.
As to the proof... I offer you references time and again... and you?
Btw, There's a new article in Journal of African Herpetology that listd food items consumed by wild Radiated tortoises that have been observed and guess what is listed... again.
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Ed
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Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I believe we have a problem with semantics here.Opinion and experience are two clearly different issues. Some people have opinions about everything with little or no hands on experience.An opinion is a mindset, and experience is an actual event. Ie.: Based on my own experience, my Russians seem to think they are from Down Under, as they have been laying eggs like mad all of December instead of July!(It's a joke, son, although i now have7 eggs in the incubator)Let me reiterate-each may experience different mannerisms due to climate control,feed, etc. Thank You, and Happy New Year to all!

As I said in the original post, there is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion based on another persons experience either. I just think it would be nice if it was not expressed as fact to begin with. Everybody's got their 'rubs' and this is one of mine. There are not many definitives (if any) in Biology.
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Ed
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Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

EJ, You're absolutely correct again! And i still wish that You would write a book!

who knows... one day I just might throw in my 2 cents (or a little more) into the mix. Thanks.
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Ed
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Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Ed and Tortiosehead,
I too would love to see a book from you. I would enjoy reading Ed's opions, knowledge, and experance. I think everyone good bennifit from a good over-all tortoies book.
I would also like to see one from Tortiosehead. It would be great fun to compare the two.
I am sure both would be jamed packed with good info. Wait a minute!!! Stop the presses!!! How about the two of you write one together!!!??? It could be a "He said. She said." kind of thing. Then we would be able to get both opions.