Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Approximately 1 week ago I noticed that one of our gravid Super Salmons had developed what appears to be a respiratory infection (drainage from nostrils, occasional open mouth breathing and strangely she is flattening her body approximately 1/3 down from her head for approximately 1 to 1.5 feet of her length--I thought this was an attempt to either warm the lung area or was due to muscle fatigue but am unsure). I immediately increased the enclosure temp by bumping the Helix (98-99 F on the warm end and 75 F on the cool end of a 4 foot Vision). I also added a 50 watt infrared heat lamp in the recessed fixture. She seems to be holding her own or getting slightly better (based on almost dry nostrils and less flattening of the body). I have not seen any other open mouth breathing and there is no clicking or hissing sound to her breathing. However, I do not want to jeopardize her health. Our local vets, though well intentioned, are not well informed with regard to herps. Regardless, I am considering bringing her in for a culture and sensitivity but want to hear some thoughts on treatment options. Would antibiotics (e.g., Baytril) compromise this girl's pregnancy/litter? If so, are there other options that we should try? Lastly, is the flattening of the body typical with CBIs who have a RI--sorry, this is our first RI?

First off, I'm not real sure what a CBI is. Maybe BCI (Boa constrictor imperator)?

Secondly, you do not want to treat for RI with any antibiotics until you know the pathogen you are trying to treat, or at least the class of pathogen such as Gram+ or Gram- rods, etc.

Yes, some antibiotics can compromise the developing embryos. If your vet knows that the snake is gravid, then he can make a good judgement on how to treat.

Normally, a culture and sensitivity test is not necessary on the first pass. All you need to do is Gram stain a slide and identify the class of bacteria you are fighting. If the chosen antibiotic fails to help, then you may want to look at doing a culture and sensitivity test. The culture just grows the bacteria and in the sensitivity test, you see which antibiotic kills the bacteria that you just grew most effectively, or see if a particular drug will kill the culture at all. That all takes time. You are better off just Gram staining a slide and making determination as to which antibiotic to start off with based on the results of the examination of the slide. At least that way, you are making an immediate effort to treat. If the antibiotic doesn't seem to help in a reasonable period of time, then you figure out which one to try next. There's nothing wrong with going ahead and starting a culture when you take the specimen for Gram staining.

Baytril (Enrofloxacin) is a fairly harsh drug when administered IM, but is an effective one. Baytril can be administered PO, but, for me at least, it doesn't seem to be as effective that way. It can cause sterile necrosis ulcers at the injection site when used IM, especially with the 100 mg/ml strength and especially in Boids. Other choices are Amikacin and Ceftazadime (among others), which are less harsh and seem to be just as effective. Much will depend on the type of bacteria involved. None of these antibiotics are effective against everything. Some work well on one strain or species of bacteria and others work well on other strains.

Yes, you are correct. The snake in question is a BCI . . . please excuse my typo.

Thank you for your prompt and very informative response to my post. I will take your advice and request a Gram stain as a first pass. Our vets are fantastic but freely admit that their knowledge of herps in general and boids in particular is limited. Per your suggestion, I will suggest that we avoid Baytril unless the vets suggest otherwise. If the stain suggests that both Amikacin and Ceftazadime will potentially work, do you have a preference for one over the other? Our first priority is to preserve the health of the Super Salmon. Our second, of course, would be to preserve the health of her litter. I am really curious about our girl's flattening of her body. It was, at times, almost pancake flat . . . not like a snake just trying to warm itself or as a threatening posture. Is this common with respiratory infections? Again, thank you for your help.
Phil

I've not seen that "flattening" behavior before, so I don't really know about that. Was the snake compressing laterally or vertically? I mean was she flattening from the sides or from the top and bottom? Maybe someone else on here has seen that before.

As far as a preference for Amikacin or Ceftazadime, I prefer Ceftazadime when either are indicated (just because it has worked well for me in the past). I think Amikacin is quite a bit less expensive, though.

She is compressing herself as if she is attempting to press her backbone down to her belly. I snapped some digital photos of her and will download them when as soon as the kids wake from their naps (it's a long story). Can the Ceftazadime be administered sub-cutaneously (sp?) or is it better given IM?
Phil

I think absorption is better IM, given in the front 1/3 of the body in the muscle either side of the spine, and divided up over 4 or 5 injection sites.

I am currently fighting an RI in one of my boas. After the first trip to the vet, she was put on Fortaz(Ceftazadime) and after about 3 weeks showed very little improvement. I took her to the vet again and she was put on Amikacin, which has worked very well in the last week. The vet said both antibiotics were safe for gravid boas (mine is possibly gravid). Although you must be very cautious with Amikacin, It can cause kidney damage if the drug is overdosed, also they boa must me soaked in water every other day for 30-45 minutes to make sure she is hydrated.
I have also done alot of reading on the subject in the last month, and it seems that some people use Amikacin and Ceftazadime (Fortaz) together at the same time, alternating shots every other day. One fights Gram-positive bacteria and the other fights gram-negative. I have not done this but I read it worked well.
Good Luck
Chad