Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Please read the whole post. I am not asking about the trade, that is taken care of. I need information on similar occurances. I have included all information to aid in finding the possible cause of death. Here it is from the beginning: I have had a redtail boa for a year or so. It was around 20 inches when I recived it and around 35 inches when traded(I never measured it). It ate thawed room temp. frozen mice every 8 to 10 days. It could have eaten small rats but I prefer to feed more of a smaller food item than one that may be a little to large and cause the snake to regurge. It was housed in the same rack system as my other boas with heat tape and temp. controller installed. It was the only normal redtail boa I had, the others being albino, super salmon, hypo dh ghost, hypo and a pair of sand boas. I decided to trade with a man I met through one of the reptile classifieds and we arranged a trade, the redtail for a couple pythons he had and would meet when he was visiting family in a nearby area for the holiday to exchange animals. It was feeding time and not thinking, I fed the redtail a thawed mouse the day before we were to meet to trade (12/27/03). The next morning (12/28/03) I placed the redtail in a lite-weight pillowcase and placed that in a large size plastic reptile ranch to transport the snake the 2.5 hour drive. I kept the heat on during the drive and the temp had to be 85 or so, it was warm enough to sweat. I arrived and went inside. I looked at the pythons and a baby rock python he was stopping to trade someone else on the way home. He looked at the redtail. It was actively moving around and wrapping around my arm and going up my shoulder, Typical redtail stuff. He had already seen pictures of it via email and now I could show him the nice pink coloration all down it's sides that my camara couldn't pick up. We both agreed to the trade and I placed the pythons in my pillowcase and inside the reptile ranch and he placed the redtail in his snake bag. We walked outside and talked 10 minutes or so. I had some other errands to run so we shook hands and I drove home to situate the pythons and continue my day. I recieved an email from him this morning stating that he left a message on my voice mail and that he checked the redtail yesterday morning (12/29/03) around 9am and the redtail was barely moving and died about 10 minutes later. I have already sent him a message to freeze the redtail and ship it to me overnight at my cost and I will ship his pythons back overnight at my cost after recieving the redtail and I will have a narcropsy done here. That's taken care of. Here's what I need to know: Can moving a boa a day after eating kill it? I know they will regurge if jumbled around. He did not say it regurged. He did not mention any signs other than barely moving and dying about 10 minutes later. If moving it was the cause, wouldn't it have regurged first? I have seen a few sick reptiles in the past 10 or so years, most went off food and became lethargic before dying. It was active, had good weight, ate normally and did his business regular. It ate one day, was active and alert the following day, and dead the next morning. I'm worried about my other animals. I have cleaned all their boxes and bowls with bleach water and wiped the rack down with it as well. Has anyone ever had this happen? I'm trying to get some early insight as to what could have caused this. It will be a day or 2 before getting the redtail back and a few days or more to get the results from the narcropsy. Thank you for any information. You can email me if you need to. dkosnow@comcast.net
Take care. Bill

"HE DID NOT THROW UP HIS MEAL ...HE DID CRAP AND PEE...THERE WAS BLOOD COMEING FROM HIS MOUTH ( BUT VERY LITTLE ) HE TWITCHED A FEW TIMES AND HIS LAST MOVEMENT WERE HE WOULD OPEN HIS MOUTH REALLY WIDE (HE DID THIS LIKE 3 TIMES BEFORE DIEING) THEN HE WENT LIMP AND STOP BREATHING" I was also told the redtails body was buried and is un-available for narcropsy. Thanks For any info. Take care. Bill

Koz, are you sure it is dead? I hate to say this, but it sounds like a scam to me.

Personally I would not send the pythons back if the new owner cannot produce a body...if it's buried, he can dig it up. As to the question in the earlier thread, no I have never seen a Bci die from being handled or transported the day after a feeding. That isn't to say it is impossible, but highly unlikely in my opinion. If you had the boa for as long as you say and it was healthy in your home, there's no reason to think it got sick & died within a few hours because you moved it after feeding it. For instance, I recently took in a jungle carpet python (December 3rd to be exact). It had been fed on December 1st, driven around for 45 minutes to an hour to reach me on the 3rd, when it was 40 degrees out, and arrived pretty chilled even though it was inside a car. While he was sluggish and pretty cold to the touch, he did fine after being allowed to slowly warm up in a nice quiet quarantine tank. From what I can tell from your account of the transport, my jungle went through much more and is still hale and hardy. Without solid proof that your boa is dead, I simply would not return the pythons as to me it sounds like a scam...perhaps that's the pessimist in me from all these years of reading of ripoffs, but that's still my first instinct. Oh, just for future reference, freezing basically forfeits any conclusive results from most necropsies - the freezing damages the tissues preventing an accurate study of the body.

Raven

Thanks,
tc

Thanks for the input everyone. I have my own thoughts about the deal. I'd really like to stay away from that end of it though. This is really not a place to debate that issue. I am concerned about the well being of my other animals and have no way of knowing now, other than taking them all to the vet. No one's gonna say "ha,ha just kidding" I have some expensive redtail morphs, ball python hets., some outstanding gecko pairs and chameleons that to me are worth more than anything. If it is true and it is transmittable from snakes to lizards, I could potentially lose all my animals. The same goes if I only take a couple animals to be checked and one I didn't take has something. The monitary loss is nothing compared to the thought of losing any others or all of them. It will cost me an arm and a leg to have all my animals checked and even then may not find anything. I can ship the pythons back to him and be done with him, but my worries don't stop there. Sorry to have brought this nightmare up. It has really put a new spin on trading for me. Thanks again for any and all help. Take care. Bill