Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a 1 yr old WTF, still relatively petite, who pulled a toddler move on me. The bottom layer of the tank is filled rounded gravel pebbles, and, in parts where there is no moss or rock slabs, the gravel is exposed at the surface without cover. well, my one little guy took a running leap at a cricket and gulped down a large, but round (no jagged points) stone with it before i could pry it out of his mouth. my whites have swallowed small stones before (because i find it in their poo) but never one this big. i have watched for the stone to "reemerge", but it has been two days and no luck. he doesn't seem too distressed but he also doesn't seem to be moving very much either. Is there anything to do, HELP!

he/she has most likely suffered from intestinal impaction, which means the rock is probably stuck in his digestive system. change the substrate to peat, co-co, or bed-a-beast.the only way to get the rock out is surgically removing it, so take your frog to a vet ASAP.

luke z
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http://luke_zecevic.tripod.com/frogsofaustralia

You have just experienced what any caresheet worth its salt or even a slightly well read 16 year old with a Reptiles subscription would warn you and advise against. The use of gravel in a captive reptile/amphibian enclosure is hazardous. Your frog could potentially suffer from an impaction and die because of presence of omething that has been classified as a "no no" for quite some time. Once that possible obstruction is there in a frog all you can do is hope and maybe try supplementing a few wax worms or earthworms to lubricate things up a bit. There are more proactive suggestions, but they all are extremely stressful for the frog. Keep him in a seperate enclosure where you can moniter his fecal deposits and check for the offending material. In the meantime check on a few caresheets on the proper way to house a tree frog and git rid of that gravel. If you have seen stones in his droppings prior to this, than I'm frankly suprised this hasnt happened before. I hope the best for your frog, and I'll even provide a link for you to go to just to make sure that every other aspect of your enclosure is correct. With the availability of great forums and accurate caresheets, there is no reason for these sort of things to happen. With any luck, your frog will be fine. However as a reponsible owner it is your responsibility to provide a safe enclosure for your captive animal to thrive in.
Care Sheet

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*~~Whitney~~*

Though here at journey's end I lie in darkness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high, beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell: I will not say the Day is done, nor bid the Stars farewell."

Well, disaster adverted. i dont know how he did it, but the little bugger got it out (his poor pooper). I found the excreted stone (that ironically had the wings of the cricket that accompanied it, permanantly embosed on the rock). my situation is that i have three very active WTF, all whom are diggers. I have tried to put the soil-like bedding down and they would just dig the rocks up anyway (i am not a big fan of the mats, as i have mold problems with those in the past). I have tried to cover most rock area with live moss or other cage items so it is generally not a problem, but thank-you for the concern (i dont want you to think i am ignorant or neglectful of my babies). It is funny that you mentioned care sheets...it seems like that for everyone you find saying one thing, you find 3 others saying another. i guess that is just another thing that will always be debated. Thank-you everyone for the suggestions. this forum has always been very helpful.

The fact remains that the gravel has no place in your vivarium if your frogs can readily dig it up. I won't even get into the fact that your tree frogs have no business burrowing into the substrate in the first place, but the fact that you have resigned them to a dangerous enclosure is not very responsible. If you insist on having the gravel there for drainage, try placing a mesh screen over the gravel to create a barrier between the rocks and the soil. Also try looking into a false bottom setup, or use large river stones instead. There are many ways around the use of gravel, there is simply no justification for it being there. You realized there was a problem when the frog ate a large piece, don't think that it won't happen again if you leave your tank the way it is. I'm not saying that you don't care about your frogs, but know that you know the correct way to set up their enclosure, its up to you to be responsible and protect them from possible harm. What size tank do you have anyway that they feel the need to burrow in? That is not normal tree frog behavior, and it's possible that your tank need some tweaking outside of the substrate.
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*~~Whitney~~*

Though here at journey's end I lie in darkness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high, beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell: I will not say the Day is done, nor bid the Stars farewell."

you realy should change the gravel substrate for something more safe. as for digging, this IS NOT a natuaral behaviour for WTF's. WTF's are aboreal(tree dwelling), if they are trying to dig, or trying to escape their enclosure then they are not happy with something. what heat source do you use, and what are the temps within the enclosure? sometimes they will try to dig to find warmth or chill down. they also dig if they are stressed, or if they are sick.
i also have a website which is quite similar(in care respects) to the one previously mentioned. check it out.

hope i helped , luke z
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http://luke_zecevic.tripod.com/frogsofaustralia

Hi Luke. i am definitely looking into a new solution for the tank. I am new at tree frogs, which is one reason i joined the forum. I had done my research, i had talked to breeders, and i had talked to owners, and no one seemed to have any qualms with substrate over rock. but since it has become an issue with my little guys, back to the drawing board. i appreaciate your straightforward, non-abbrasive answer, so thank you. i do have another quick question about the digging (i had posted the queston earlier but everyone that posted said their frogs did it too). I have 3 WTF in a 40 arboreal tank with a heating pad under one corner and a basking lamp in one corner. i have darked out 2 walls and given them places both on and above ground to hide. i have a large peice of wood that spans from the base of end to the top of the other, a very viney Pothos that covers most of the top of the cage, and several top to bottom bamboo sticks. i have one water dish over the heater (generally 80 degrees) and one dish in the cool part of the cage (around 70-ish degrees) which i clean every other day. i lightely powder their crickets and try not to over handle. the humidity stays pretty constant at about 70 and i haven't seen (or smelled) any mold or mildew. they are very talkative, active, and have good appatites, it is just every once in a while they get on this digging spree (they have done this since i have bought them). any suggestions would be appreciated.

i personally think that you should ditch the heat mat, and just go for the incandescent bulb. the main concrn i have is
-thermal gradient
- and unnatural heat source

thermal gradient means, basically, hot and cool side of enclosure. because frogs are ectothermic(cold blooded), they must regulate their body temperature to stay happy and healthy. now, because you have a heater at the bottom of the cage, and one at the top of the cage they may not be able to regulate their body temps properly. that is why sometimes unatural heat sources can cause unatural activity in the specimen, thats why its always better to stay as natural as possible. if the incandescent is not producing enough heat(30-35c in hot spot), than try a higher wattage. incandescent lights are the closest thing to a natural heart source, in which it is hotter closer the bulb and cooler further away, just like it is hotter closer to the sun and cooler further away.

p.s, your enclosure sounds great, but what size is it?

hope i helped, luke z
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http://luke_zecevic.tripod.com/frogsofaustralia