Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just saw that the Red Bellied Turtle was added to Pennsylvania's threatened species list. It kind of suprised me since there are so many of them near me. The funny thing is that the Spotted turtle isn't considered threatened or endangered in PA and I haven't seen one of them in wild here since I was a kid. The bog turtle is the only endangered species in PA.

WHAT!!! Where did you hear this?

Katrina

Hi,

I looked it up. This website has it listed as threatened. And it was last updated 2/9/01.

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:KEnLTiY5RAkJ:sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Fish_Boat/endangered/species_list.pdf pennsylvania red-bellied turtle endangered&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Here's another one.

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:KEnLTiY5RAkJ:sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Fish_Boat/endangered/species_list.pdf pennsylvania red-bellied turtle endangered&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

And another...

http://faculty.juniata.edu/yohn/reptilesE&T.htm

Not quite sure if they're reliable (I would think so) but maybe somebody can look more into it. I'm surprised about the spotted turtles, though. Perhaps not enough population surveys?

~Johnny

Red bellies are only found in southeastern PA. I know of populations in southern Bucks county that must have 200 adults. But if you go 20 miles north or west there aren't any. In New Jersey I 've seen populations well into the hundreds. I always thought that Red Bellies were Threatened in P.A. Where do you live? I am not asking for your town just the area.

Hmm, sounds like the same situation in MD with common map turtles and spiny softshells - they're all over the pet trade, but there are small populations of both in MD, so they're considered endangered here!

Katrina

I got that information after picking up the PA 2004 Summary of Fishing regulations and then following the link to the endangered species website. The website also lists red bellied turtles as only in Southwestern PA but there is quite a population of them here (Erie, PA) along with about 9 other species of turtles. I would say that the redbellieds are even more common than Maps or Painteds here. When summer comes I will take a picture of a fallen tree where there can be 50 mixed turtles basking at one time.
Link

Althought the Redbellied turtle does occur in extreme SE PA, you probably misread a species known as the REDLEG turtle (or "terrapin", a regional name for the
Wood turtle, Clemmys inculpta. For many, many years this species has been covered by the fishing regulations with a defined season for collection in the past and I assume they were eaten regularly. Now, they are probably protected. Your location in the Erie area rules out the Redbellied turtle

Born and raised in PA

if you check the link I posted above, the Red Bellied turtle, Pseudemys Rebriventris, is the turtle that is now considered threatened in PA...this is new since last year. Also, the wood turtle, hasn't had any special regulations from the PA Fish and game dept for at least as far back as 1982(looking back through my old guides). The only one of the 11 PA turtles to be on the long term endangered list is the bog turtle(which are still more common than spotteds here). Just to verify my identification of the red bellied turtles I cross checked the website for the PA Herptological Atlas by the Biology dept at IUP and they have documented the Red Bellied turtle in Erie County. So, although I am aware that it is not its normally documented habitat I'm fairly sure they are living happily a stone's throw from my home and have been for many years.

This is really a revelation to me - far beyond the costal range of the Red Bellied Turtle. Perhaps the milder lakeshore clinate and heavy snow cover (which prevents radical temperature shifts for hibernating or dormant animals) permits their survival in this area. It's just hard to believe that they can breed early enough and get their eggs hatched before the stesses of atumn.

One additional caution for Pennsyvania residents identifying turtles: In the iron-rich red-clay soils of Southern PA, there are populations of Eastern Painted Turtles whose plastral scutes are stained a deep ruby red by the dissolved iron in the water. When kept in tap water, they lose this coloration as they shed their scutes.

I think it might be possible that the newborns are overwintering in the nests and come out in early summer, I see yearlings but not many smaller than that.

Has anyone written the authorities about this? It's rediculous that the spotted and wood aren't protected, but a redbelly is!

Katrina

I am also in PA (south central) I can tell you that the woods and the spotteds are very plentiful here. I see them daily on the roads in the spring and summer. Paints and stink pots are probably the most abundant in this area though. As far as red bellies I have never seen one in the wild here but the red ears are becoming more and more common I caught a 13 inch female this past summer crossing the highway from pond to pond. As far as the regs none but the bog are on the sites list but alot of them are on the canidate speicies list ( Wood, eastern box, spotted) You are allowed 2 of the previous speicies for now but they are starting to suffer from over collecting and also habitat destruction. The red ears(which have no business in Pa's water ways) are just making it worst due to unnecessary competition.

Is there a permitting system in PA? What if your two box turtles breed?

Katrina

I asked the same question and I was told by fish and game that the second your pair lays you are over the limit. Now I breed boxies and F/G has been to my house and told me they are not worried about it unless you would have a ton of them. Most of the ones I have were aquired from other states from breeders but you have to be able to prove it.

Actually, according to PA Fish and Game you are allowed to collect up to 2 non-Bog or Redbellied turtles PER DAY, there is no limit on how many turtles you can keep in your collection. The only limitation is on your daily catch, turtles are regulated as fish in PA.

Well I don't know where you heard that but the daily creel limit is 2. but if you have anymore than 2 in your possesion at any given time then you are over the creel limit RIGHT. I was just fined for the same thing that we are discussing last year. 75 dollars for the base fine 50 for courrt cost and upto 300 for every one you have over the limit. I was not caught in the feild as I stated earlier most of mine were bought from other states and I have the paper work so I fought it and won. However I can garuntee that what I am telling you is accurate.

>>Well I don't know where you heard that but the daily creel limit is 2. but if you have anymore than 2 in your possesion at any given time then you are over the creel limit RIGHT. I was just fined for the same thing that we are discussing last year. 75 dollars for the base fine 50 for courrt cost and upto 300 for every one you have over the limit. I was not caught in the feild as I stated earlier most of mine were bought from other states and I have the paper work so I fought it and won. However I can garuntee that what I am telling you is accurate.

You're completely correct.
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Jeff
1.1 Albino RES (Spot & Angel)
1.0 Three Striped Mud (Burt)
1 Concentric Carolina DBT (Spunky)
1.1 Russian Tortoises (Viktor & Sasha)
1 Eastern Boxies (Dakota)
0.1.1 Florida Boxies (Cricket & Haruko)

Coming soon...spotted turtles, European ponds, and G. spengleri

Sorry, you are right, I found this on the PA website regarding keeping wild PA reptiles :

"According to PFBC regulations, it is currently legal to have in possession up to two (2) of each species of reptile or amphibian except for state listed species (view the list of threatened & endangered species), or species which are subject to seasons and limits, regulations can be found in the PA Summary of Fishing Regulations & Laws under Reptiles & Amphibians (view the online summary book)."

State Threatened and Endangered Species Lists are usually comprised of animals that only appear in one portion of the state. If the natural range of a species only extends into a corner of your state, there is a good chance that species will be on your states threatened or endangered species list, even if it is extremely common in that area, and common throughout adjoining states.

In Kansas, the common map turtle, green frog, and texas longnose snake are some of the animals considered threatened or endangered, although they may be plentiful in other parts of their range.
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>>I just saw that the Red Bellied Turtle was added to Pennsylvania's threatened species list. It kind of suprised me since there are so many of them near me. The funny thing is that the Spotted turtle isn't considered threatened or endangered in PA and I haven't seen one of them in wild here since I was a kid. The bog turtle is the only endangered species in PA.

The northern redbelly turtle is a threatened species in PA. There are several subspecies of redbelly turtles, and the northern is the only one protected. Also I don't think spotteds and woods should be protected b/c I easily find 50-100 of each in any given year in PA....and that's without even looking too hard. You need to know the habitat to find them in in order to find them in large numbers. I do feel that eastern box turtles should be protected however, I have gone to many prime locations and I've only come up with 10-20 individuals.

Oh here's a pic of two spotted turtles just for the heck of it...

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Jeff
1.1 Albino RES (Spot & Angel)
1.0 Three Striped Mud (Burt)
1 Concentric Carolina DBT (Spunky)
1.1 Russian Tortoises (Viktor & Sasha)
1 Eastern Boxies (Dakota)
0.1.1 Florida Boxies (Cricket & Haruko)

Coming soon...spotted turtles, European ponds, and G. spengleri

Unfortunately many of the habitats where Spotteds and Woods used to be located in Northwestern PA no longer support these turtles for one reason or another. I am sure that you can still find them in Central or Southern Pa but will this be the case in another 10 or 20 years? Not to sound like Joe Conservationist because I have collected turtles from the wild before but it is unfortunate to see these populations declining.

I am not sure if you are familiar with Northwestern PA but there is a wild box turtle conservation program at one of the Nature Conservancy areas here. They take in eastern box turtles to repopulate an area that was once thriving in them. The turtles are GPS monitered to study patterns and prevent them from straying out of the protected area.

It is my understanding that the Northwestern PA populations of spotted turtles are a broken off portion of the native range. What I mean by this is that they aren't directly in the prime spotted turtle local. Basically, what I think I'm trying to say is that yes the habitat can support them there, but they aren't very common. I do know that the wood turtles are very common there.

Also southcentral PA has one, if not the, healthiest spotted and wood turtle populations in the country. And I know the specific counties I'm located in, you are not allowed to even think of doing constructions near their habitats. County specific permitting process. Of course it also greatly helps that there's bog turtle populations here too.
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Jeff

Glad to hear that you have lots of spotteds there, I always thought they were more predominant in the Great Lakes areas but it's good to know that they still have strong populations elsewhere. If you ever get any nice outdoor pictures of some basking please post them. I have hundreds of pics of turtles in their natural environment on 35mm, but I recently got a digital camera so I will start taking pictures that I can post this spring.

>>Glad to hear that you have lots of spotteds there, I always thought they were more predominant in the Great Lakes areas but it's good to know that they still have strong populations elsewhere. If you ever get any nice outdoor pictures of some basking please post them. I have hundreds of pics of turtles in their natural environment on 35mm, but I recently got a digital camera so I will start taking pictures that I can post this spring.

I'll definately post some pics coming this spring. I was focusing on box turtles and wood turtles this year, so didn't get many pics of spotteds. I'm planning on looking more for bogs and spotteds this spring so i'll look for them.
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Jeff