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First Snake Call of the Year (800x600 PIC)

chris_mcmartin Jan 02, 2004 09:21 PM

About 7:45 tonight, I got a call from our club's Reptile Rescue honcho about a snake on someone's porch. As I drove to the location, the woman assured me it was an atrox, because it was rattling, but I always downplay that idea, assuming it's just a feisty TX rat snake.

Well, as soon as I got out of my car, I could hear the snake rattling all the way from the street--it was indeed a Western Diamondback, on their porch under their little girl's bicycle, all coiled up and ready for self-defense. It took a few tries to get it into my Home Depot bucket--it was a reluctant captive!

The people asked me what I was going to do with it. Judging from the snake's size (about 3 feet--I'll measure it tomorrow), I said it probably wouldn't adapt well to relocation, and that I might eat it; but I just got off the phone with another herp club member who wants to use it for our Boy/Girl Scout exhibits, so it looks like this snake will rattle another day.
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

Replies (16)

IndyShark Jan 03, 2004 10:01 AM

That's a beautiful snake. I hope you will let it go.
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0.1 BCI
1.1 Okeetee
2.0 Motley Sunglow, Bloodred
0.2 Motley Sunglow, Ghost

chris_mcmartin Jan 03, 2004 12:57 PM

>>That's a beautiful snake. I hope you will let it go.

In all likelihood, it's going to become part of our herp society's local snakes exhibit. As has been pointed out here and on other forums I frequent, large rattlers allegedly don't relocate well, and end up wandering aimlessly until they die. I don't necessarily agree with that (although the limited studies that have been conducted come to that conclusion for the small sample sizes and few species addressed), but my current policy is to relocate the small ones, and EAT the big ones (rather than just have someone kill it and throw it in the garbage). I haven't had to eat one yet!
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

kottonmouthking Jan 22, 2004 02:16 PM

Oh my God. Are you serious? Let it go and go to the store and buy a chicken.

chris_mcmartin Jan 03, 2004 01:32 PM

I took the snake out today in the hopes of getting some pics for our society's Reptile Rescue page, but the snake was uncooperative.

The first pic is a pic I used in conjunction with the Snake Measurer software to ascertain its length at right about 3 feet:

The last pic shows the snake abusing my Gentle Giant tongs, which it did repeatedly. Nice looking snake, though!

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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

IndyShark Jan 03, 2004 05:39 PM

That's a very nice snake. Thanks for sharing
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0.1 BCI
1.1 Okeetee
2.0 Motley Sunglow, Bloodred
0.2 Motley Sunglow, Ghost

smokeysshadow Jan 04, 2004 08:25 PM

Nice find! I too had my first encounter the other day. After reading your post, I was quite inspired (and bored), so I went to the spot to look for some scarlets. After about two hours with no luck I decided I was crazy and that it just wasnt warm enough, so I decided to head back. Then while on the trail I spotted a black racer warming itself just right off the path. I went out again today and saw a young ground skink, so I know things are starting to pick up. I'm sure we'll have some more cold days, but for now I've got my hopes up. I'm on the panhandel. Thanks for sharing that inspiring tale.-Smokey

mrcanada21 Jan 05, 2004 03:33 PM

np

chris_mcmartin Jan 05, 2004 08:46 PM

I assume you do not subscribe to the studies citing poor survivability of relocated rattlesnakes. For the record, neither do I.

This one was turned over to a fellow herp society member who is incorporating it into the society's outreach exhibits (which advocate leaving rattlesnakes alive vs. killing them).

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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

mrcanada21 Jan 06, 2004 07:42 AM

I would have found the nearest suitable habitat, the place the animal most likely came from and I would have released it their. I wouldn't have told the people I released the snake nearby if it bothered them, I would have told them I destroyed it, relocated or whatever they wanted to hear since I know how some people tend to be about this kind of thing. For me killing it would never have been an option in the first place. I suppose the reason I though your story would have been better if the snake was released is because I prefer the thought of the snake in the wild, doing what rattlesnakes are supposed to do. Using the snake for education purposes is better than your alternative (killing it) but not as good as taking it off the porch and putting it back where it most likely came from IMHO.

As for my thoughts on the survival rate of relocated rattlesnakes, everything I'v heard/read would suggest that it is quite low (something like a 95% death rate within the first year). Of course my rattlesnakes hibernate for 5 months of the year so not being able to use the same hibernaculum annually is the main cause of death in relocated individuals. I wouldn't relocate any rattlsnake around here unless it is a neonate that hasn't seen a winter yet.

chris_mcmartin Jan 06, 2004 08:20 PM

>>I would have found the nearest suitable habitat, the place the animal most likely came from and I would have released it their.

The only problem is that this particular population of snakes is surrounded on all sides by housing developments and, most recenty, a super Wal-Mart. Provided they stay within their isolated natural habitat, and that a sufficient food supply exists (which I'm sure it does), they'd be fine. However, this isn't the first time I've been called to pick snakes out of people's houses in that particular area, and the fact that this very house killed two similar-sized rattlers two weeks prior at their house is not very reassuring as to the survivability of specimens which wander into the housing areas where people value their children's lives over those of the snakes (it's a feel-good move to simply preach "leave the snakes be," but another thing altogether to think about going into your garage, or in one case, kitchen, risking stepping on a snake and possibly getting bitten/hospitalized).

I wouldn't have told the people I released the snake nearby if it bothered them,

I told them I might relocate it outside of town (I live on the edge; take that literally or figuratively), or that I might eat it. Turns out I did neither!

I would have told them I destroyed it, relocated or whatever they wanted to hear since I know how some people tend to be about this kind of thing.

I don't lie to people. Our rescue service is free money-wise, but I always squeeze in a bit of natural history and the importance of snakes in the ecosystem. The truth is that around here, atrox are plentiful to the point of being nuisance animals. If you freely admit that to people, it's almost approval of taking the shovel to every snake they see (which happens more often than our society getting calls for live capture).

For me killing it would never have been an option in the first place. I suppose the reason I though your story would have been better if the snake was released is because I prefer the thought of the snake in the wild, doing what rattlesnakes are supposed to do.

That is arguably the best solution, but it's difficult to consider some of the fragmented urban populations of these snakes "the wild" in the classical sense.

Using the snake for education purposes is better than your alternative (killing it) but not as good as taking it off the porch and putting it back where it most likely came from IMHO.

That is your opinion, and mine is that the snake most likely came from the field behind their house, as did the other two from a couple of weeks ago. If I simply put them back, the cops would be called back to report that our society "didn't do its job of removing the potentially dangerous snake" and whenever I and the local sheriffs have shown up simultaneously in the past, the lawmen have pistols drawn, ready to shoot. However, maybe the snake, once put back a hundred yards into the field, would not return to the house. That can't be determined, but I will err on the side of human benefit in the cases I handle (no one calls for nuisance snakes on the ranches, but these "city folk" don't take kindly to snakes underfoot in their homes).

>>As for my thoughts on the survival rate of relocated rattlesnakes, everything I'v heard/read would suggest that it is quite low (something like a 95% death rate within the first year). Of course my rattlesnakes hibernate for 5 months of the year so not being able to use the same hibernaculum annually is the main cause of death in relocated individuals. I wouldn't relocate any rattlsnake around here unless it is a neonate that hasn't seen a winter yet.

I can't necessarily say for sure that the rattlers around here hibernate in the sense that your "way northern" ones do (doesn't get NEARLY as cold!). The arguments against relocation I've seen tend towards the "unfamiliar territory" line of thought, that the snake won't be able to locate food outside its home range, and it wanders aimlessly until its ultimate demise (by starvation, predation, or vehicle!).

I always say the snake will do more for wildlife being released, even if it winds up eaten or as roadkill (which is also eaten, thanks to the astronomical number of vultures around here), or even eaten by ME, than going to waste in a trash can, cut into a hundred pieces.
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

smokeysshadow Jan 07, 2004 12:08 AM

n/p

chris_mcmartin Jan 07, 2004 07:14 AM

I'm just pointing out that what works well in one situation may not be the best solution in others. As someone who likes snakes, it really stinks to know that one snake is probably going to die, but I'd rather it "give a little back" than just get killed by someone who thinks he's a hero and shoves it in a garbage bag!
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

mrcanada21 Jan 07, 2004 07:14 AM

I didn't realize the snake was surrounded by construction zones, had I known that I wouldn't have added my 2 cents about leaving it in the wild. It sounds like you really didn't have much choice but to remove it.

Where I live rattlesnakes are very rare due to fragmentation/destruction of their habitat and of course human persecution. Saving the tiny, isolated population that still exists has become a passion for me and I'm fortunate enough to have had the pleasure of tracking them via radio-telemetry for the past few years . It must be nice living where they are still numerous, I wish they were numerous here. Hopefully good management practices will keep your population healthy indefinately, however I have lost alot of faith in peoples management practices through my experiences. Cops pulling out guns at a snake seems a bit drastic but I suppose its a different culture down there. Sometimes you don't realize what you have until its gone (or almost gone).

As far as lyeing to people about relocating snakes, like I said I have no reservations about it in certain instances. The degree of ignorance I'v encountered from some people is really quite extensive. The only place I can release these small rattlesnakes (Sistrurus catenatus) is in the small parcel of habitat that still exists so if I have to lie to an ignorant person so help save a species from extirpation I will. I will even feel good about it afterwards because its the morally right thing to do for me. OK, now I'm just babbling.....

Take it easy.

BTW, you did have some good points. Thanks for the clarification.

chris_mcmartin Jan 07, 2004 08:40 PM

>>I didn't realize the snake was surrounded by construction zones, had I known that I wouldn't have added my 2 cents about leaving it in the wild. It sounds like you really didn't have much choice but to remove it.

Not just construction zones--full-blown housing and businesses. I suspect the open area where the snakes are coming from is not long for this world either. I think most of the residents wouldn't even know there were snakes out there until one strays from the little eco-pocket!

>>BTW, you did have some good points. Thanks for the clarification.

And thank YOU for being so civil! Threads like this tend to get heated!

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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

herperjames Jan 07, 2004 11:43 PM

He's cool 'cause he's a canuck eh.

P.S. Mr.Canada - lying is a sin
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"The magical mystery tour is dying to take you away"Email & Messenger

snakeguy88 Jan 08, 2004 06:52 PM

Texas IS becoming developed quickly nowadays. Scott Wahlberg and I always herped this one spot (and Erik had been with us before) and now it has been demolished to become a community along with a Kroger. Quite sad. I was thinking about protesting, but it is their land, so what can I do? Andy
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Andy Maddox
AIM: SurfAndSkimTx04
MSN: Poloboy32486@hotmail.com
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

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