Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a pair of het for albino BPs. I thought the female was gravid, but not so. I think the mid-body lump I spotted must have been gas or poop or something else. Anywhooo, I put the male back in with her on the 1st. Until this morning they have been hooked up pretty much 24/7. Well.. I have a BP I rescued from a neglectful owner about a month ago. I took it to a friend and had it sexed yesterday. It is a female and gorgeous, yea! Since she has been to the vet and appears quite healthy, I placed her in with the male and female hets yesterday. They are in a 3 ft. neodesia. I kept a close eye on them and they seemed to be doing fine. This morning when I checked on them, the male was biting the female het. Not viciously, it almost like it seemed he was telling her he was done with her. Anyway, since I really, really want this female bred, I took the other female out. They cruised around awhile then went back to mating. Have your seen this behavior? Any idea what it means? Also, how long should I leave him with her? I'd like to get the other female bred, too.

Thanks - Amy C.

why did you put 2 females together? can you tell them apart? it would suck if you couldnt tell apart the female het and the female normal. You should really buy the Sutherlands DVD made by mark seward.

Good question - the het is banded and the other female is a near black back. Thanks for the recommendation.

Amy C.

no problem. the video may be steep in price (70$) but its very well worth it. Covers everything you need to know (mostly basics) about breeding, cycling, care and husbandry of hatchlings and adults, incubation etc..

That is quite bizarre that you would do that. I would look at a google or yahoo! search under snake quarantine methods. For sure.

As for biting, that is not really a Ball courting/mating behaviour. I've never seen it. Milksnakes, kingsnakes, and sometimes corns, but never a Ball Python. And the male wouldn't bite a female to tell her that he's done. He would simply move on. A male would have no reason to just bite a female BP. That is weird.

And you leave the male with the female until they stop breeding. Then you watch for ovulation. I keep trying until ovulation hits (or at least close to it) and then that's it. after ovulation, what's going to happen, is going to happen.

Yeah, well.....okay I'm an idiot. This female was brought in to the reptile shop along with a boa. The owner gave them up. They were pretty much frozen. He had left them outside and their lamp burned out. It had been 30-40 degrees here in N. Fla. for over a week. At least he had the sense to bring them in. I really didn't know if they would make it. They were so weak and cold. Now they are in good flesh, very healthy, and both gorgeous now that they have shed. I took them to my vet. She checked them both over really well, wormed them and gave them a vitamin shot. That was a month ago. She's clean inside and out.

The male has stopped biting now the other female is out. Maybe he was trying to position her because it was too confusing with the two females. ???

Thanks for your help and input. Amy C.

The best solution for a snake that has been "frozen" or is sick, is to stick them in a Rubbermaid and super heat/humidify them. Never put them in the same cage as your existing collection!! Not to mention, if your two hets were breeding, why not just use the male's empty cage?? Please tell me there was an empty cage for the male and your hets aren't housed together year-round? That's a whole other ball of wax.........

As for the biting, I have NEVER seen it. People use to breed Balls en-mass like some people breed common boas. One or three males and a BUNCH of females. That's how it used to be done. And even then, I have never heard of a male biting a female. I mean, even with male combat, its a HECK of a lot to get a male to bite another MALE!

I have nothing to add. Its a bizarre set of circumstances. Best of luck.

Oh, no, the rescue BP has not been in with the hets except for just night before last. She has her own cage, which she is in right now. And the male has his own cage, too. He isn't biting anymore. Stopped after I removed the other female. Wierd!

Thanks for your concern and information. It really helps us beginners to have availability of experienced breeders through the forums. You input is very much appreceiated and noted.

Amy C.

I hope you have success in turning around the rescue! Glad to see she's in a better home then she was before!

And I hope the ratio gods are on your side for the hets! I hope they're on BOTH our sides!!!

Cheers,

Jeff F.
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I understand the temptation to shortcut the quarantine process on the cusp of breeding season. I think you mentioned they where rescued a month ago and depending on how the female ball was kept that could be a nice beginning to quarantine. However, I'm super paranoid about balls having been kept with boas right now due to IBD so be sure you don't have any mites to vector that nasty around. If kept in separate cages and without external parasites there should be very little if any risk to keeping both boas and balls but given how common mites are in pet stores I worry about balls that have been through pet stores. I'm not sure how long it would take a ball to come down with IBD so not sure how long of a quarantine you would need after a ball was last exposed to a boa or boa mites to be sure you don't have it. Because boas can live with IBD for some time it has become all too common for them to have it but it quickly kills pythons (actually better for us because if your pythons are staying alive you eventually know you don’t have IBD).

When I was first starting out I often had friends sex snakes for me and found (after I spent years growing the snakes up) that they weren’t even right 50% of the time. Depending on how much experience your friend has you might be better off flipping a coin to sex the new girl. I think it's better now days but if you have any doubts look for a more experienced 2nd or 3rd opinion.

Are you sure the het male was biting the het female and not the new "girl"? I haven't seen male combat and it sounds like from what Jeff said that even then biting would be rare but it seems more likely than biting the female he has been breeding. It would really suck if the new snake turned out to be a male and fathered the babies with the het female rather than the het male. Maybe breed the new female separately after any additional quarantine and confirmation of gender.

Thanks. The new girls have been housed on paper towels until this weekend when I gave them aspen bedding. No sign of mites or anything else.

My friend who sexed them is a reptile professional. He hasn't been wrong on ours, yet...

That biting was really wierd. And I made sure which female he was biting - the het he had been breeding. He was biting her near her tail. I'm just thinking there were too many snake bodies in there and he was trying to reposition her. ???? The biting stopped after I removed the other female. So I'll be sure to only give him one girl at a time from now on.

Thanks for helping out this beginner breeder.

Thanks, Amy C.

to make observations of a "new" behavior. I remember when I was a kid I had a green anaconda that ate other snakes (OOPS, hey I was 12 years old!). I reported this observation in the newsletter of the Chicago Herp Society in 1970. There was no mention of ophiophagy (snake-eating) in anacondas in any prior literature that I'm aware of to this day. Thanks for reporting this observation Amy!! Scott J. Michaels DVM

>>to make observations of a "new" behavior. I remember when I was a kid I had a green anaconda that ate other snakes (OOPS, hey I was 12 years old!). I reported this observation in the newsletter of the Chicago Herp Society in 1970. There was no mention of ophiophagy (snake-eating) in anacondas in any prior literature that I'm aware of to this day. Thanks for reporting this observation Amy!! Scott J. Michaels DVM

why dont they just evert the hemipenis? its a 100% way to sex snakes and its easy once you know how to do it.

...rubber boa. This was around 1980, they were close in size and had been living together for at least 18 months. This case was reported in Herp Review in the Life History Notes circa 1982.
SJM
P>S> Live and learn!!!

Thanks, Doc. Mom and Pop het are getting along fine since I took the other female out. They're resting today after three straight days of making whoopy. I bet they're tired of me looking at them. I took their hide box out because they wouldn't use it - kept pushing it away from their hot spot. Go figure!

Amy C.

Scott - didn't your Candoia (or was it Eryx?) also have a taste for snake flesh many years ago?

-Joan

The other was from Tony (link here), but that was a male-male interaction. I rarely ever put two male ball pythons together, because I haven't found it necessary to stimulate breeding. And the few times I've done it, the action gets rather slam-bang violent rather quickly with one of my particularly aggresive males.

Thanks for letting us know about that, Amy. The only species in which I've seen male biting female is with my Haitian boas. I know bull snakes do it, but I've just never watched very closely the few times I've allowed them to breed.

-Joan

....nothing like seeing 10-12 feet of Mexican Pine snakes sliding around the cage while making whoopy as Amy put it!!!
SJM

Sounds incredible! When my baby kingsnakes are old enough to breed I'll be a nervous wreck.

Amy C