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Anyone do it I'd lie to see photo of superhypos being incubated the trempor method way
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Leopard Geckos
1.1 Tangerine trempor albino
0.2 blizzards
1.1 Super Hypo Carrot tails (both Baldy)
1 amel corn snake

1.0.0 Common snapping turtle
0.1.0 Belize slider
0.1.0 Egyptian tortoise
0.0.1 blackknobbed sawback
0.0.1 stripeneck musk
0.0.1 nothern DBT

whats the tremper method way?

The tremper incubation method is a way of incubating female eggs to get brighter colors. The egg is incubated at 80 degrees for the first 2 weeks, and then 90 after that. I’d say most of the people on this forum frown upon this incubation method, because it can misrepresent the true color of your female leos. If you’d like to read more info on it follow this link:
http://www.leopardgecko.com/color.html

kurma, I know this isn’t exactly what you were looking for, but it still makes a point. These two hypo sisters were incubated at room temp, and they both grew up with very nice colors:

It doesn't brighten the colors, it reduced the melan, or in albinos, the brownish color caused be the fact that they're T . So using this method is a way to get rid of the brown. Some geckos don't have any brown, (or pink), with out using this, and in my opinion, those geckos are genetically "superior" to the ones that needed the TCD. Take the word "superior" lightly, all geckos are created equal.
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My blood is workin', but my, my heart is...DEAD!

n/p

but also along with the tremper methood usually comes horrid deformities, missing eyes is one of the main things... and generally these geckos end up not making it. Tremper may say he does not get deformities or egg death but i find that very hard to believe, considering the people who i known to have tried it on a large scale experienced these deformioties and egg deaths on a vast number off eggs/offring, somewhere in the 1/3 percentage. and these breeders have been breeding geckos for years and have TONS of experience, so its not that they did something wrong simply just followed what is stated on his website.
so essentially out of three geckos, one will either be still born , die in the egg or have major deformities. maybe tremper is leaving out a step in his process or just not telling the complete truth.

fyi, if you breed a tremper incubated tremp albino animal to another tremper incubated tremp albino animal (both having no brown-albinos) and incubate them normally you will get browner or brown albinos, what people are refering to as chocolates" (tremper strain) leopard geckos. the tremper strain of leopard geckos is a t positive form of albinism...natural pinks and reds red eyes,peink eyes are considered t- (what most people think of them they see the word "albino"
bells i believe are t- and rainwaters i think are t positive but a much lighter form/strain than the trempers.
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

Tremper having his base of operations in Boerne texas, has the luxury of a good deal of the year giving his female eggs that he is incubating for, a nightdrop, thats right i heard him speak at daytona and a large part of his eggs (almost all incubated female) are left outside for the first 2 weeks and then moved into the incubator to produce the nicer looking females. I still believe that he has never had deformities because when i tried the Tremp incubation method i got no deformities, but i did have alot of eggs die. Which tremper admits to happening but he can afford that, many small time breeders can't. And as for saying tremper incubated females are fake, well i think the opposite i think they are showing there true genetic potential.

Jason

ok yeah i know he is from boerne, i was raised there and lived there til bout 6 years ago if he does leave them outside, im asuming you ment outside of the incubator.... this sure wouldnt be high enough temps durring the winter ( dec-jan is when breeding season starts and jan and feb are our coldest months), mind you texas isnt hot all the time just most and in this area the wintertime highs stay around 5-60 normally and normal lows in the 40's. so if this is the case why does he state 80 degrees for two weeks?
the breeders i have talked to incubated 100 eggs like this, a substantial number, however a fraction of what they produce yearly.
how can you say it shows the true genetic nature of the animal, because when bred to another tremper albino and incubated at normal temps... you pproduce brow or browish albinos... if i buy and pink and white tremper and breed it to a pink and white tremper.... incubate it noramlly i expect my offspring to look like the parents... the pinks and whiyes are not genetic anomilies rather created by manipulating the temperatures to reduce the amount of melanin in the animal.
now do i think their will be tremper albinos that are gentic to throw pink and white offspring when incubated normally??? ye!!!!!! but trempers way is just cheating plain and simple, the only genetic it proves is the albinism regardless of color... but not white and ppink albinos thats not the genetic part thats the manipulated part... aka the cheating area.
lets say you know nothing and buy two albinos from pay a few hundred dollars for some nice white and yellow or white/pink and orange geckos.
now you breed them and incubate them... you get brown offspting
trust me normal looking or brown trempers arent worth jack... *most of em unless they are exceptional, high color[tang] or abbarant or something)
shoot and ya cant even sell em for$40, $30 and possibly #20 because #20 bucks for normal trempers is what i have seen as next years going rate for normal trempers
woildnt you feel cheated or slighted? that you bred the two gorgeous animals yet without manipulating the temps you cant produce animals as nice or nicer that the parents??? changing temps durring incubation is not genetic... thats manipulation
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

As for it being cold in Boerne i wouldn't know i don't live in texas, obviously he isn't gonna put eggs out in the winter time. I've heard during part of the year he does leave female eggs outside but this was through a third party so ill have to check that with ron. As to the fact that its cheating i don't se it that way, a female incubated at 80 degrees shows bland color and not its genetic potential. An animal hatched out trempers way shows what other females from the same line can look like using the higher incubation temperature therefor the true genetic Potential. As to paying hundreds of dollars and hatching dark albinos, your not gonna pay hundreds of dollars and hatch dark albinos, heck you can go to a show and get a breeding pair of nice tang albinos from 200-300 bucks now and they aren't gonna produce dark ablinos. this is my opinion and from my experience and that is all.

Jason

did you ever see any of the first tremper albinos?
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

I believe the first Tremper Albinos where yellow and white, but a lot of them turned brown when they grew to adults. I think there were posts on the forum way back when about there new $1000 albinos were turning brown.

I think that if a brownless Tremper Albino cannot be produced without the use of the Tremper Method, then why not make an artifically brownless Tremper Albino. The fact is that the only brownless Tremper albinos that I have seen for sale have been incubated using the Tremper Method, and those are the animals that are being bought. A&M incubates their animals using the Tremper Method and they are consisntly selling there $800 geckos. If that is what sells then that is what is going to be produced. It can't be cheating if everyone know what their buying was brownless because they were incubated using the Tremper Method. The Tremper Method takes off the brown mask and you can see the awsome tangerines and pinks of the albino. The Tremper Method has mabe Tremper albinos more desireable and prettier looking since we cant have it genitically.

The only problem I could think of that can come out of this is people incubating their eggs using this method on onther morphs and getting the same results (less black) then we could have a problem. But eventually their animals wouldn't be producing very nice animals and they wouldn't be able to keep their business.
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Bradley Baquial

Alberto does not usually incubate using the tremper method, I'm good friends with alberto and recently purchased a couple killer females from him (carrot head tangerines 1 giant, from his unicorn bloodline) that were both incubated at a straight 82 degrees no brown here yet all red and orange.

Jason

you would have to prove it before I could believe you. Ever since Tremper posted his paper on his website, I adimatically assume that every browless albino I see was incubated using that method, and I'm sure many other breeders asume the same thing. Do you see where I'm comeing from here? You can say that you got these two albinos that were incubated at 80F but there are all these other albinos incubated using the Tremper Method and look the same way. Do you know if all the albinos came out brownless at 82F or just a few? I just find it hard to believe that a brownless Tremper albino was produced using the traditional incubating method since all of this arose. There were all kinds of people that bought albinos from Ron Tremper and produced brown albinos using the traditional way, so its just hard to believe until its proven.
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Bradley Baquial

The only problem I could think of that can come out of this is people incubating their eggs using this method on onther morphs and getting the same results (less black) then we could have a problem. But eventually their animals wouldn't be producing very nice animals and they wouldn't be able to keep their business.

whats the difference between this and doing it to tremper albinos? its ok for one because everyone else is doing it but not on other morphs cuz they breed true LOLOL thats funny cuz trempers are brown
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

ppost it clearly on their website?? not that i have seen
i mean if you intentionally ask im sure they say yes but its not like they volentarily give it out
they dont post it at the top of their site, not on their reciepts

im not attacking them they have very nice animals, i am just using them as an example i know many other breeders that do this too if you ask they will tell ya but if ya dont they sure dont volenteer the info
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

It was back when this whole argument came up and they got a few e-mails concerning the Tremper incubation method and right on the page where they sell their leopard geckos there was a notice that said that they incubate their geckos using the Tremper method and that they didnt get deformities and what not.

The point I'm trying to make is that since (or at least the vast majority) Tremper Albinos are naturally brown, whats the problem if there is a way to make them brownless since there is no other way besides it. The difference between this and hypo tangerines is that hypo tangerines can be done through genitics. I guess your right and that there is no difference between the two, but brownless Tremper Albinos are popular and in demand, and because of this they will keep being produced.

I have personally never seen a Tremper Albino as clean cut and brightly colored as a Tremper Albino incubated using the Tremper Method.
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Bradley Baquial

by selective breeding... using the temp thing is cheating in my opinion... just as hypos and tang were made light bright tremper albinos can be to by doing the work and selectively breeding the lightest and brightest... thats how all this stuff happens....... and as far as a brightly colored non tremper incubated normal.... here ya go
80-82 for the full duration she is nearly six months old now and keeps getting brighter and oranger and not one bit of brown

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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

If anyone has any questions about my animals, please contact me at amgecko@aol.com
Please do not post FALSE information about me on a world wide forum.
Best regards to all of you.
Alberto

Saw tons that had brown pigmentation, but i will claim till this day that i've never seen one from ron with dark pigment(due to his incubation method) but have also never hatched one from rons stock with dark pigmentatin. Like i said in above post you don't need to manipulate temps to produce nice offspring what you need are nice parents of course it is still technically possible to hatch ugly stock (i've done it in tangerines that turned out hi yellow looking...not dissing on hi yellows though, but never happened to me with albinos)

Jason

i think i have a friend that has a pic of rons original tremper, i will see if i can post it here.... back in those days they were brown, like a turn with yellow......
trust me when i say he has been using these temp manipulations for a long time.
i know several people who purchased directly from him and when the nice pretty light albino animals bred and incubated normally produced browies.
i know their is a buncha ron tremper guru's on here, whom think he is God ... however i am not one..... i find most of what he says a buncha poo
what can you expect from a person who keeps his animals living in their own feces for weeks at a time? this says leaps and bounds about him and his character than any publication or recomendation can, so i find it hard to digest any of his "helpful hints" or his stories and whatnot
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

not a turn with yellow a turd with yellow
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

I would hope no one incubates super hypos with Tremper method. Even if you don't consider the Tremper method on albinos cheating, on hypos, that just a lie.
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My blood is workin', but my, my heart is...DEAD!

if there is no brown to start with would there be noticable results with the Tremper method??
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The following sentence is true.
The above sentence is false.

4.4 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Marbled Gecko
1.1 Red Eared Sliders
0.2 Siamese Mice

I doubt it. It may or may not reduce the pattern, that I'm not sure of. It's supposed to just make the brown white or light pink.
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My blood is workin', but my, my heart is...DEAD!

it would probably help out with trying to eliminate or reduce spotting if you didn't have a pure spotless leo.
I wonder if it would help clear up the tail spotting you see on some super hypos???
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The following sentence is true.
The above sentence is false.

4.4 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Marbled Gecko
1.1 Red Eared Sliders
0.2 Siamese Mice

at least when you buy a Tremper Albino that has no brown on it. I dont think you can produce a Tremper Albino with out brown without using the Tremper method. A Tremper Albino with no brown is not genetic, and it will not be passed on to the offspring. You will still have to use the Tremper method on Trmeper Albinos if you want brownless offspring even if the parents dont have any brown.
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Bradley Baquial

I've been hatching tremper albinos for years from tangerines to the yellow phases. If you breed a normal yellow tremper albino to another yellow tremper phase albino and incubate the eggs at a constant 80 degrees you still get yellow phase albinos, now yes if the mother was a result of the tremper method then yes techincally you could still hatch brown albinos, but most of my stock is from ROn and i've never gotten a brown albino from his breedings. You do not have to use the tremper incubation method to keep from getting brown albinos, all you have to do is have good stock. If you want nice females then incubate your female eggs at 82-84 degrees you will get just about all females and they will all turn out nice. its what i've done for the past year and has worked consitently, i've hatched nice, and screaming females by incubating at low temperatures but having nice parents. You don't need the tremper method to produce nice female albinos what you need are parents that resemble what you are looking to produce.

Jason

. . . since I don't have any trempers, I don't have any experience with his Tremper method - except if you include my stinkin' incubator flipping out and cooking the majority of mine last year (and also killing the majority of the eggs) . . .

That being said . . . manipulation of animals is done all the time. We dock tails of certain dogs - clip poodles to look like goomers - shape ears of Dobermans - braid the manes of some horses - etc. Shoot, when I was showing animals in 4-H there were a number of tricks of the show trade to show off your animals best attributes.

As far as Ron Tremper using heat to bring out the while in his animals - I say, more power to him. We would never know the potential of that gene - unless we applied HEAT to trigger that effect. Tremper albinos - white ones - are some of the most beautiful animals in existence. I think this fact is born out that most people have pretty much left LV' albino's go except in their use for PA's. You see very little market or clamor for LV albinos, while the tremper albino market remains strong. That tells me something - because marketing can only go so far. You still have to have a strong product - and white trempers are still the bee-knees of the leo hobby.

As far as temper-cooking tangs go - I have some suspicions. I have seen some 2nd hand accounts of people who have bought tangs from very reputable sources, which have gone "bad" (lots of melanin coming back) - after subjecting them to night temperature drops. That makes me SUSPECT (not prove) that some people are cooking tangs out there to take a short cut to SH's. That, in my opinion - is a different thing than temp-cooking Trempers.

That's why I appreciate people like Kelli, Robin, John Meltzer, and a few others I know who's tangs are nice and orange right out of the egg - cooked at 82 degrees.

Sorry for the rambling - but it's an interesting topic.

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Monte Meyer
Powergeckos
Email

No Fru-Fru morphs in the herp room

I don't consider the tremper method cheating because it only evens the playing field between males and females. Since males are incubated at 90, you can't tell in the majority of cases whether or not a male has "brown" genes.

I do believe, however, that the breeder should be open about how the geckos were produced. This way customers can make an informed decision. I'd love, for example, to get a pair of light trempers that would produce more of the same without any temperature manipulation. Unless, however, breeders are candid this would be impossible.

When I incubated my trempers I only upped the temperature to over 85 (I use hova-bators so when I try to keep them at 90 I end up with lethal temperature spikes so I aim for the high 80's). This produced pinkish rather than white trempers. I only had one deformity out of 100 eggs and no increased mortality.

-Alice

first off show horses and what not, they already have the conformation, the looks and genetics... yes we clip nose hairs and easr hars (what you don't? LOL) polish the hoves... use show sheen to make the coat more luxiourious but thats cosmetic... its kinda like an ugly girl no matter how much make up they put on they are still ugly, while a pretty girl uses the makeup the same.. after that she still be pretty. blah dockin dogs tail and ear croping while i dont do it to my own animals is done after the fact it isnt part of their genetic make up.. their colors and comformation and genes still remain the same.
that being said i disagree with this quote

first off monte dont make be pull out my little tang lv albino..... ( cuz you know she smokes most trempers)... best watch it man the RV tangs are gonna be awesome and orange and true genetic beauties and worth every penny LOL

second whats the difference between tamp manipulations in tremper albinos and in tangs... its the same result, less melanin and not the true gentic base of the animal... dude keep trempers (tim) cool and i garuntee they turn brown or browner, just like some tangs do.

"i clear my nostrils in your general direction you stupid english knight (said kniget)" lolol
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

and while i dont know why it didnt show up o shall post again.......

As far as Ron Tremper using heat to bring out the while in his animals - I say, more power to him. We would never know the potential of that gene - unless we applied HEAT to trigger that effect. Tremper albinos - white ones - are some of the most beautiful animals in existence. I think this fact is born out that most people have pretty much left LV' albino's go except in their use for PA's. You see very little market or clamor for LV albinos, while the tremper albino market remains strong. That tells me something - because marketing can only go so far. You still have to have a strong product - and white trempers are still the bee-knees of the leo hobby.

As far as temper-cooking tangs go - I have some suspicions. I have seen some 2nd hand accounts of people who have bought tangs from very reputable sources, which have gone "bad" (lots of melanin coming back) - after subjecting them to night temperature drops. That makes me SUSPECT (not prove) that some people are cooking tangs out there to take a short cut to SH's. That, in my opinion - is a different thing than temp-cooking Trempers.
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks