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It seems that I may have lost the point to the statement that 4% protein intake for a captive tortoise was adequate or reported for tortoises in the wild.
I’m assuming that the 4% protein mentioned is the percentage of the amount of food it consumes during a feeding. I don’t believe that is enough protein for a growing tortoise to consume.
One thing I have learned through the previous exchange is that we don’t know the protein requirements for humans. How can we say what the requirements are for tortoises (let alone Marathon running tortoises). Also, there is no way you can use a human model to determine the protein requirement for a tortoise. I have come across some models based on studies done on fish which are a heck of a great deal closer to tortoises than mammals.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

There lies the problem.

The assumption

4% is a figure taken from a 1996 article by A. Highfield. It represents an average intake level per food items for herbivorous torts that approximates what they eat in the wild. Its % of protein in food items...not total intake.
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Joe(Chiro)

The Russian Tortoise Web Pge
The African Tortoise Web Page
North American Box Turtles
Massachusetts Turtle Rescue, Inc.

"One thing I have learned through the previous exchange is that we don’t know the protein requirements for humans"

Ed
You need to read more carefully.

The RDA's for protein in humans has been established.

The Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) of protein according to U.S. government standards is 0.8 gram per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of ideal body weight for the adult. This protein RDA is said to meet 97.5% of the population's needs.
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Joe(Chiro)

The Russian Tortoise Web Pge
The African Tortoise Web Page
North American Box Turtles
Massachusetts Turtle Rescue, Inc.

Up until this post I was actually starting to believe that you knew what you were talking about and not just baiting me.
I can be simple sometimes and just too trusting.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I don't understand Ed
What baiting?
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Joe(Chiro)

The Russian Tortoise Web Pge
The African Tortoise Web Page
North American Box Turtles
Massachusetts Turtle Rescue, Inc.

"I have come across some models based on studies done on fish which are a heck of a great deal closer to tortoises than mammals."

Interesting leap of logic

what references?

Highfield states that the average per day for hebavous tort is 0.20g of usable protein per Kg
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Joe(Chiro)

The Russian Tortoise Web Pge
The African Tortoise Web Page
North American Box Turtles
Massachusetts Turtle Rescue, Inc.

Ed,
I posted this link a little ways down in another message. In case you've missed it, I'd like to repost it. Please read this article carefully as it will show you clearly that the 4% figure you posted is totally on out context.

Here's the link:

http://www.anapsid.org/dietcons.html

Debbie
--
Director, Massachusetts Turtle Rescue, Inc.
http://www.maturtlerescue.org
Board Member, Asian Turtle Consortium
http://www.asianturtle.org
Moderator for Massachusetts Turtle Rescue's Online Community
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maturtlerescue/join
Co-Owner of the North American Box Turtle Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NorthAmericanBoxturtle/join

"It seems that I may have lost the point to the statement that 4% protein intake for a captive tortoise was adequate or reported for tortoises in the wild.
I’m assuming that the 4% protein mentioned is the percentage of the amount of food it consumes during a feeding."

Ed,
The "4% protein" mentioned means that on average, the diet that tortoises consume in the wild contains 4% protein. This was probably arrived at by researchers observing what tortoises eat in the wild, collecting a representative sample of the plants they eat, and then analyzing the sample for protein content. Without having read the actual articles cited (Rosskopf, 1982; Hansen et al, 1976), I would assume this 4% protein is on a dry matter basis, because that is the generally accepted way to report nutrient contents of feedstuffs in a scientific article.

BTW, does anybody actually have copies of these articles?

griffin

yea, that's the more accepted way of presenting it. Even if it is a percentage of the dry weight matter I still believe that it is too low for a growing chelonian that is kept under relitively ideal conditions.
Also, the references cited are worthless without a reference list.
Griffin, email me and I'll send you the articles.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

As I already mentioned in my post 'Scientific data on protein intake', all these percentages were calculated on a WET WEIGHT basis.
I also have the complete reference (in Andy's book) of the first article cited, but you seem to have it anyways...

Gaby

Eureka!

stumbled across this article:

Nutrient balances and maintenance requirements for energy and nitrogen in desert tortoises (Xerobates agassizii) consuming forages. P.S.Barboza. Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology 112: 537-545.

http://mercury.bio.uaf.edu/~perry_barboza/cbp112-537.pdf