Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, I was at a local show yesterday and picked up my first ratsnake. (if you don't count the 10 corns I have...LOL) The name of the business I got her from was PT Reptiles in Columbus OH. He called her a "flame" Texas Rat snake. She is very pretty, colored almost like a creamscicle corn. She has a great personality, very calm and tame. He had normal Texas rats and also luecistic. He showed me pics of the the adults, and the orange ones were gorgeous. I was wondering if any of you have one of these, and if you can post any pics and tell me alittle about them. I want to go to the next show, and pick up a mate for her from the same guy. He said that if I breed her, I would get normals, leucistic, and flames. I have never seen one of these before, and was just curious if there are any more people out there with them. I will post a pic at the end of the week when I finally get my digicam. Thanks to all of you in advance.
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SpardaWolf
Corn Snake Addict
"Always Learning"

The flame line is from outcrossing Leucistic Texas rats with everglades/yellow rats to strengthen the bloodline of the leucistic animals. The ancestors to the flame line originated with Kathy Love breeding Leucistic Texas rats to glades/yellow rats, although she didn't use the flame name. It was coined by someone else, perhaps the Zerkles or Tom Dew?

kk

If this snake was a dog, you would have a very good looking mutt. Sounds like the owner is very happy with the snake, and for some very good reasons. The color and temperament both sound very attractive for a pet snake.

I do have a problem with dealers who sell snakes that are crossbreeds as if they were just a rare morph of the normal species that they picked to label it with for the sale. I would not have called it a Texas Rat Snake. Elaphe obsoleta lindheimeri, the Texas Rat Snake, is a true subspecies of Elaphe obsoleta, and not something that breaders created in the last few years.
Link

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Moderator note: link checked and ok.

Edited on January 6, 2004 at 18:35:59 by phwyvern.

I have real problems with the use here of the term "strengthen the bloodline." Explain to me, please, how does it improve or strengthen the bloodline by outcrossing one subspecies to another, with the resulting progeny being nothing more than a fancy intergrade?

I could accept a term such a "flame ratsnake," similar to the term "bubblegum rat snake." This wouldn't imply that the animal was a pure subspecies. Inclusion of the Texas designation is flat-out misrepresentation of the animal's background.

tricia

>>The flame line is from outcrossing Leucistic Texas rats with everglades/yellow rats to strengthen the bloodline of the leucistic animals. The ancestors to the flame line originated with Kathy Love breeding Leucistic Texas rats to glades/yellow rats, although she didn't use the flame name. It was coined by someone else, perhaps the Zerkles or Tom Dew?
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>>kk
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tricia

I have real problems with the use here of the term "strengthen the bloodline.

It seems to me if you were trying to "strengthen" a blood line (presumably to avoid inbreeding depression) you would mate in a few unrelated snakes of the same subspecies (preferably locality). Otherwise, you are just trying to make your mutt more orange.

Of course this depends on your perception of the term "blood line".
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Chris Harrison

...he was beginning to realize he was the creature of a god that appreciated the discomfort of his worshippers - W. Somerset Maugham

Maybe someone can ask Kathy why she outcrossed the leucistics, I certainly don't know. Don't shoot the messenger here.

As for misrepresentation of the flame morph, the persons selling them probably believe they are pure. Tsk, tsk. This is why hybrids/intergrades should not be created in the first place.

kk

Those are the 2nd most common Tx. Rat Snake morph, behind Luecys.

They aren't too rare either, I have seen them at the All Ohio Show several times from two different breeders, Dwight Good, and several others online.

I got one from Dwight as my second snake, most recent pic. is 9 months old, but here he is.

Not as exquisite as a leucy but definitely a work of art. Thanks for sharing.