Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I mean easy 5-6 footers? Me, I've got 3 and two on their way.
Two Easterns and one "brooksi"

This one's kind of a dog but when I found him (Sept. '02) he was on his way out - couldn't have lived in the wild (McIntosh Co., GA) much longer...scared from battles and gut-loaded with the worst case of parasites I've ever dealt with. It took him 4 months to eat once after two doses of Ivermectin - he puked and passed the nastiest stuff - I cloroxed the hell out everything he got near after each time and then after a 2 months of treatment I put him with everyone else...18 months later and he's still hanging in there. So calm that he doesn't even snatch food out of my hands, but pulls it easy and then chomps away...but he can still hit hard and constrict with the best of them, but he's wise old man and doesn't waste any energy!

Here he is, Philo, a 63" big-headed, wc warrior that's getting cataracts he's so old - I keep him because he deserves a quite life after making to this size in the wild! In the upper right corner, you can see the head of my 64" brooksi that I call "Loco' for the way he eats. Calm as a baby out of his cage, but inside those cage walls he's as nasty as a po'd wild water snake!

He is NJ locality and 17 years old plus and is 5.5' long or so. Takes 2-3 sm-med rats at a time.

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I just LOVE that snake Keith. Is he still producing? Do you have any offspring?-Smokey

Yes he is still going strong. He is in my basemt for the winter right now. Here is my holdback from last year from him.

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Nice! I'm gonna have to snag a pair off you this summer! Great job with your web-site btw. I'm gonna be in the DC area this summer, so I'll keep an eye out for some new locales for you. No luck here on the western part of the panhandle though.-Smokey

What exactly do you mean buy the "western panhandle." I grew up in Mobile and P'Cola - get into Blackwater River SF and environs to include Conecuh NF and environs in Escambia/Covington/Geneva Cos. in Alabama where it's still very rural and PLENTY of habitat for herping. I can't tell you how many rare plants I've found in that area; that's some of the best habitat in Florida outside of Apalachicola NF.

Escambia Co., Florida however is a crap hole in regards to natural communities - except for the national seashore of course.

I have my "secret areas" to find critters and plants all over the western panhandle and they will remain that way since I've been hammering that area for 25 years or so in some capacity!

You should be on the lookout for the Black King/Easterns in Baldwin Co, Alabama too - I probably know that county's natural communities as well as anyone; it was literally my old stompin' ground growing up.

I caught so many snakes as a kid there's no telling what I had my hands on - this is when Destin was just a Tom Thumb and a few restaurants (mid '70s).

Happy herpin' down in my favorite place - northern Florida!

-John

You bet. I'm in that same area right now. When I said no luck I meant just for easterns. Maybe its a fluke but Ive seen none. As some may know Ive had great luck with other species and ssp. adamanteus, barbouri, C. constrictor( I hate that name), E. guttata, E. o. spiloides, Even found two elapsoides in one year AND I just moved hear last year.( yes, bark ripping, but ALL in developing neigborhoods.) Youre right that this area is gold, but I just havent had any luck with getula. Do you still live around here? Me and a guy are probably getting an early start in the next few coming weeks if it gets warmer than it was today. I went out last weekend and saw a racer and some ground skinks, so things might be picking up soon. We are in the fort walton beach area. Maybe you wanna swap some spots?-Smokey

Smokey!

I wish I were still in the area - I'm stuck in Mississippi (not even the coastal area!) for the time being...but I plan to make it back that way within a year or two.

Are stationed at Eglin? That's another bukoo spot for herps - maybe the best in Florida save the glades.

You should have a great time...whenever I get back to the area to visit, I'll hop on board here and let you know. There are some cool spots north of DeFuniak, etc.

-John

John, Sorry to hear your stranded. No, I'm not in the force, but my father is, so luckily he can get me onto the base. Only problem is that it’s federal land, so ixnay on the collectionay. I just know that's where I'm gonna find that albino scarlet king.LOL Some of the other places I've been hitting is all those neighborhoods popping up in Navarre and Mary Esther. I have had some good luck around there with all the scrap laying around. Well thanks for the reply, and drop me a line if you’re ever in the area.-Brett

That is one of the most beautiful easterns I've ever seen.......and not too easy to come by. Very nice!

Brandon

Here is my male 98 hatch Brooksi Kingsnake. He is around 5 foot or so maybe a little bigger. He also puts away 2 sm/med rats a week.

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That snake is unbleievable looking man. Anyplans to breed him ? I've had a Brooksi on the to get list for a few years now. Hopefully at daytona this year........Scott Wahlberg

I have had a theory on this,I think a rodent-only diet limits their total size and the fact that they really arent BRED for size to begin with....my opinion,lol,Jeff

Jeff

Elaborate on your theory. Are you saying a rodent only diet will keep a snake from reaching its full size potential ? What in other food items help them achieve larger sizes ? Im assumming to other food items you mean various species eggs, frogs, lizards and other snakes and maybe a bird or 2 for good measure. From what I understand Florida Kings out in the sugar cane fields eat nothing but rats and they get pretty damn big. Of course they may mix in a snake or 2 but I bet they eat whats most abundant. What about Retics and Burms and Boas that seem to exceed sizes of wild animals and fed only on a diet of mostly mice,rats and then rabbits and pigs or whatever.

Keith
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I have found that wc Florida Kings will from the canefields will turn their nose to garter snakes, but will take rat snakes and racers readily, and even brown anoles. There's a large abundance of rats, mice, rabbits and snakes in that area. Lot's of turtles too, I'd bet that turtle eggs make up a good portion of those kingsnakes' diet in the wild. I've seen CB Brooksi over 6 feet long which have been fed exclusively rats. Snakes that eat mice probably stay smaller though. I don't think the lack of snake in the diet has much to do with how big captive kings get. I switch all my snakes to rat pups as early as possible, it ends up being cheaper, and seems to grow the snakes faster.

I know its anecdotal, but lets try and accumulate some statistics here....How many wc kings do you have? How many of them are over 5'? How many cb kings do you have? How many of them are over 5'? I think a disproportionate number of kings over 5' come from the wild because of their proclivity to eating other snakes(but we had that debate on this forum last year I think).I would really like to challenge the interested in testing some theories about things like this here!! For instance, taking length and wieghts of breeders vs young....size of eggs....crossing locales vs locale purity,etc....It would take some time to accumulate meaningful data,but if we colaberate it would seem to me we could get some real answers.Jeff

I can't agree with you on that. First though, I've had at least 6 Easterns and 4 floridana in my possesion over the last 8 years that easily surpassed 5'.

The CB 68" Eastern I showed earlier is captive born and raised and the largest Eastern/Florida I've seen have all reached their max. in captivity.

Snakes are so efficient compared to mammals when it comes to metabolizing their food that a constant, nourishing diet of mice/rats alone will get your snake bigger than just about any wc king IMO - but I'm no snake physiology expert, so...
Also, the control of parasites is a huge factor in a snakes eventual size.

Take the "Terminator," a snake of mine that died at 69" and 5.8 pounds (measured at death, weighed right as he got sick).

He was no more than 3 feet when I got him and after a few months all he ever got was mice/rats. He doubled in size in 4 years and was already an reproductive adult when I got him; he was well on his way past 6 feet before some freaky virus destroyed him - to this day the vets. don't know what it was.

I can't see him doing that in the wild unless he lived to be 10 or something. Just look at the wc 62" Eastern from Coastal GA I caught (actually the poor thing was so lame that it wasn't much of a struggle) just over a year ago. He's now healthy and growing. Eastern's don't get much bigger than they do in the wilds of SE GA and NE FL - I don't know the locality, but I bet the largest wc Eastern (82 inches) was from that area.

Plus, I've seen guys raise the same snakes as I did from hatchlings and he powerfed his snake to almost twice the size of mine in two years - no, I'd have to say that - to include genetic makeup - the largest Eastern/floridana will always be cb or at least captive-raised.

One more example then I'll shut up!

Keith sold me a 50' (now) wc Eastern from Pender Co., NC that's a great snake - but he was slim like so many wc kings. Now though he's shot up like a rocket and when I got him he was only 6 months out of the wild, so...

JMO though!

-John

>>I can't agree with you on that. First though, I've had at least 6 Easterns and 4 floridana in my possesion over the last 8 years that easily surpassed 5'.
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>>The CB 68" Eastern I showed earlier is captive born and raised and the largest Eastern/Florida I've seen have all reached their max. in captivity.
>>
>>Snakes are so efficient compared to mammals when it comes to metabolizing their food that a constant, nourishing diet of mice/rats alone will get your snake bigger than just about any wc king IMO - but I'm no snake physiology expert, so...
>>Also, the control of parasites is a huge factor in a snakes eventual size.
>>
>>Take the "Terminator," a snake of mine that died at 69" and 5.8 pounds (measured at death, weighed right as he got sick).
>>
>>He was no more than 3 feet when I got him and after a few months all he ever got was mice/rats. He doubled in size in 4 years and was already an reproductive adult when I got him; he was well on his way past 6 feet before some freaky virus destroyed him - to this day the vets. don't know what it was.
>>
>>I can't see him doing that in the wild unless he lived to be 10 or something. Just look at the wc 62" Eastern from Coastal GA I caught (actually the poor thing was so lame that it wasn't much of a struggle) just over a year ago. He's now healthy and growing. Eastern's don't get much bigger than they do in the wilds of SE GA and NE FL - I don't know the locality, but I bet the largest wc Eastern (82 inches) was from that area.
>>
>>Plus, I've seen guys raise the same snakes as I did from hatchlings and he powerfed his snake to almost twice the size of mine in two years - no, I'd have to say that - to include genetic makeup - the largest Eastern/floridana will always be cb or at least captive-raised.
>>
>>One more example then I'll shut up!
>>
>>Keith sold me a 50' (now) wc Eastern from Pender Co., NC that's a great snake - but he was slim like so many wc kings. Now though he's shot up like a rocket and when I got him he was only 6 months out of the wild, so...
>>
>>JMO though!
>>
>>-John
>>
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this is cleo he was cbb produced by buzz jeehls(spelling?) E.T.H.S. in 1990 he is well over 6ft. i will get current pics and measurement when i get him up from brumation,he has been fed nothing but f/t farmed rodents since hatching,,,,,,thomas

Beautiful snake. That snake with some of Keith's would make some beautiful babies.......but I'm sure you both have that covered.

Brandon

A real pretty animal, and 13 too? I love to see big, old Easterns; majestic animals. The wc snake I caught and posted a pic of is right at 61" and has battle scars all over him - it remains the biggest king I've seen or caught in the wild. He has to be at least 10 because his head is huge and he's got cataracts now...but he's doing really well though. Don't expect much growth but he deserves a comfortable exit from the world after being a warrior for so long!

Like a Gladiator who never lost, he's in cozy retirement and I'll never sell him - he's with me to the end even though he's not the prettiest or largest I have.

-John

This is a male Wakulla CO., FL Eastern that I measured at 61 inches less than a month ago.

A really nice snake man...it makes me sick because...

I miss the Tally area really bad - but economics rules sometimes! I still remember missing a Eastern while trying to get over this cypress dome area in Wakulla Co. about 2 miles SE of the state park - I got all bogged down and saw the snake 30 feet away just slip into the distance me cursing the whole time!

I saw more DORs, caught more kings, and saw more in the ANF/St. Marks area than I have in all other places I've seen combined. It's both a botanist's and herper's dream place!

I was talking with Keith...do you know of anybody around there now that has a wc or cb F1 female from the northeastern part of FL? I don't have the old timers name I used to deal with in Baker Co, FL, near Lake City anymore - he could find a snake like no one's business. I'd even cross my McIntosh Co., GA male with one from Jefferson Co., FL without an ethical problem - it's only 30 miles from Darien, GA to the Florida state line so unless I had a OBK or a clear blotched or Eastern/Blotched natural intergrade (I could kick myself for selling my blotched X g.getula to Mike at Pet Parasite when I had to move) things would be cool.

Now you know why I went on and on about Tally - no place like it for a herper!

Take it easy. BTW, do you have the same e-mail address you had a couple of years ago? I can try and if it fails I'll post mine on here because it's changed.

Take it easy.

-John

I have a '00 california king that is right now at 48-50" long.

He was severely underfed when I got him. He was really skinny. Once I started feeding him properly, his weight took off like a freight train and he started packing on the size. He is still growing a decent rate and should be a good sized cali.

Not anywhere near the size of your guys easterns and florida kings, but decent sized in his own right.

Its not a great pic, and I just fed him tonight, so in a few days I will try and get some better pics of me holding him.

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Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

He looks pretty healthy to me - what color phase is he?

My second king ever was a "desert" phase that got close to 5' - and it was a snake eating machine (back in the day when I fed my kings rattlers, copperheads, cottonmouths, ratsnakes, etc.!).

-John

He is a coastal phase, has some really nice yellows and nice chocolate color.

He never passes up a meal and is pretty hefty.

Ill post some new pics of him probably tomorrow or friday. Dont want him to regurge.

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1.0 Corn snake
1.0 Black rat snake
1.0 Albino Black rat snake
1.0 Everglades rat snake
0.1 Yellow rat snake
1.1 California king snake
1.0 Prairie king snake
0.1 Black king snake

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Big Nast was a cool snake. He was 6'4" and over 7 lbs ! He dies a couple years back. I got him from Glades Herp and he was already that big.

Keith

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Wow, beautiful big snake. I'm sorry he died.

Here's one of mine that's over 5'. A female dh ghost I got from Dave B.

Brandon Osborne

Big Whitie. Just a killer animal........and 10 years old this coming season.

Brandon Osborne

I actually have about 5 brooksi that are all well over 5'. I also have a nice striped Apalach. female that's right at 5' and thick as hell. I can't wait till summer. I'm craving the hatching season already.

Brandon

>>I actually have about 5 brooksi that are all well over 5'. I also have a nice striped Apalach. female that's right at 5' and thick as hell. I can't wait till summer. I'm craving the hatching season already.
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>>Brandon
>>
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