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to CV786 The only PROBLEM I can think of with no UVB.

eric adrignola Jan 07, 2004 08:29 AM

Like I said in the last post, I raised many little vields(particularly the 1st clutch) with WAYYY too much rep-cal, every pinhead, ever day, and saw NO problems for them, even the ones I held back for breeding. The male I klept lived for 4 years with NO health problems, then was killed by another male.

They were given WAY more rep-cal than they needed, like I said, the last male veild I have cam from much larger stock(nearly 2 foot father) than my original male(a 13" WC), and was given much much less rep-cal /minerall. every other feeding, every other cricket. He grew just as fast as my other veilds, reaching about full size at about 15 months(I did not feed them as much as they could eat--I worry more about over feeding than over/under supplementation or UNDER-feeding--these are cold blooded reptiles after all).

The thing I worry about with NO UVB is the over supplementation in the long run. I have heard that it can lead to calcification of the digestive tract, as D3 amounts tend to be high, and they are most likely over fed to begin with.

When I had the oppurtunity(sine I move the heck outta Jersey), I kept my veilds outside, with no d3. I imagine in Canada, that's just not going to cut it for more than a few months at best.

Commercial supplements tend to be very high in D3, to the point that it would be toxic if it was all absorbed. Fact is, most of it is NOT absorbed, chameleons do not readily absorb D3 in their digestive system that well at all. That's probably why they DON'T die when given so much Rep-cal! They Can absorb enough, though.

IF money is NOT an issue, contimplate this: Set up a FEW MV bulbs a foot or two above two cages. Use it as a flood--that's what I do. I use it to provide a wide area with diffuse UVB light. Probably NOT enough to sustain a veild from hatchling to adult without supplementation, but enough to help quite a bit, and if the literature I have read is correct, it's enough to pretty-much maintain an adult's blood levels with minimum supplementation.

As much as I LIKE MV bulbs, and as much as I WANT to have a be-all-end -all source of artificail sunlight, I cannot bring myself to trust them 100% JUST yet. I still rely on my past experience--that's why I use repcal over minerall-I KNOW it works.

I know some people that have raised thousands of veilds from hatchling to adult with NO supplementation using cheap, $20.00 MV bulbs. I , however, will not do that until I have a clutch of my own.

I have a female veild A L M O S T ready to mate. When I get some hatchlings, hopefully before the end of the year, I plan on doing a bit of an experiment.

I am going to raise them in groups:
one a control, just like I used to raise them. florescent, 40 watt heat bulb, rep-cal, herptivite in the gutloads.

Another will be under a MV bulb, Zero Rep-cal, but gutloaded crickets with herptivite. I want to see it work. I am confident it WILL work,but I want to stick to what I KNOW works until I have some babies.

Now what do I do if end up with calyptratus/deremensis hybrids....

Replies (3)

cv768 Jan 07, 2004 09:22 AM

Thanks for the reply...I'll take that into consideration.
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devour Jan 07, 2004 12:15 PM

I didn't know calyptratus and deremensis could breed together. I thought they were different species and the way scientist know they are too distinct species is that the can NOT reproduce to create viable offspring. A horse and donkey are two species simply because their offspring is sterile. However, if you can get them to reproduce you would most likely make a lot of money.

eric adrignola Jan 07, 2004 12:47 PM

Well, I HOPE I don't end up with sterile eggs/hybrid eggs--I want deremensis. However, it IS possible that they could produce hybrid eggs, as far as viability, I doubt it, but yuo never know with these things unless you try(or have an accident).

The definition of a species is very unclear. We can say for certain that we are a different species than a veild chameleon. However, when it comes to closely related species, things get mirky.

Horses and donkeys produce hyrids, mules, the generic name for a sterile hybrid. However, just to make sure science is kept on its toes, sometimes mules CAN produce offspring with donekys(but not male mules).

Lions, tigers and loepards can and do mate in captivity, producing HUGE sterile hybrids, it's just that not all of the hybrids are sterile.

I was reading recently that fire ants from NC cannot or will not reproduce with South American Fire ants. Strange because they come from S.A. fire ants introduced within the past hundred years or so.

Sure, veilds and deremensis are different species, but you can not really know what's going to happen in cases like this.

And I don't think I'm going to make money selling hybrids. Nobody that will pay any money for a chameleon will spend money on "breeder mules." If they are two feet long, have veild color, a big casque, a high back and 3 horns, well then, yes, people WILL pay money for then. But what are the odds?

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