Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, my hubby has finally agreed to let me get the baby albino burm I've been wanting forever. I read that the habitat needs to be a minimum of 8'x4'x4' tall. I wanted to verify that that will be large enough (I can make it up to 14'x8'x8' tall if necessary)and wanted some ideas on what materials to use. I really want to be able to view the snake but I read in an earlier post that a python over five feet can break out of glass, what would you then suggest? Also, is it a good idea to go ahead and put a "pool" in the enclosure? If so, how big and deep? Thanks!!!
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Bel
1:1:1 Green Iguanas
Numerous Great Danes, Cats and Horses
the_elysian_fields_twh@yahoo.com

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should . . ."

If you are getting a hatchling, you definitely want to start it off in a smaller cage; something like a 3' x 18" cage is plenty big. This smaller size will help your burm acclimate much more quickly, it will allow you to provide optimal temps/humidity levels and will provide a better feeling of security. Or, get a 4' x 2' cage which will allow you to keep up to a 8' burm, while still being okay for a baby burm, and once it reaches that size, you can move it to its permanent set up.

You will hear MANY folks say that a cage that is 8' x 3' is big enough for any size burm....NO WAY! Although many of my burms reside in 8' x 3' cages quite comfortably (neodeshas), our 18' , 275 lb burm would be squeezed in a cage that size. Instead, she resides in a cage custom made by Habitat Systems complete with natural rockwork that is 12' x 4' x 3' (width x depth x height) and this gives her enough room to move, thermoregulate and feel secure. This snake comes out once or twice every week or so for exercise. You don't need to incorporate a pool in your burm's cage. I have kept burms well into their 20's/30's and none of them ever had anything bigger than a really big water bowl (we get plastic troughs from an agricultural supply company). We heat our boa/python/venomous cages with pro product radiant heat panels (perhaps the finest heating device available) and our burm's cage is lighted with two 48" 5.0 zoo med full spectrum fluorescents to give it a nice light for public display. If you prefer to have a potentially smaller sized burm, go with a male as they typically top out at the 12-14' mark whereas females will easily exceed 15' (and much more weight). In terms of glass, if you get 1/4" tempered glass (or thicker) you will have absolutely NO problems with possible breaks. Have fun with your new burm and ask as many questions as you feel necessary.

Rob Carmichael, Director/Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
City of Lake Forest Parks & Recreation

It is so nice to be able to ask questions and get such complete, knowledgeable answers so quickly! I have a couple of other questions. Firstly, I am not a very large woman and would probably not be strong enough to pick up the snake by myself after a couple of years. When you say let it out for exercise, would letting it out into a very large room and waiting until it returned to it cage be okay? I'm laughing right now because that thought seems hilarious. How would you coax a snake much larger than yourself back into their cage? My husband is 6'4" and 220 lbs, but he has already let me know that he will not be helping me! Also, is it okay to have two snakes in the same enclosure or will that most likely lead to eventual fighting? Thanks again!
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Bel
1:1:1 Green Iguanas
Numerous Great Danes, Cats and Horses
the_elysian_fields_twh@yahoo.com

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should . . ."

If you are the only one that will be "handling" or working with this snake, you may be headed for trouble. In order to effectively keep a burm, in a safe and responsible manner, you really should have at least one other person (preferably two) with you (once the snake is full grown). Now, do I practice what I preach?....unfortunately, not always. Most of my very large burms have cages that are either on the floor or near the floor. This way, I can simply open the door and gently coax the snake out (which can be quite a feat when you are dealing with a 19', 280lb burm). Once I can get the front third out, the rest is easy. If you have a large, uncluttered room, you will be in an ideal situation. Once out, I generally just let the snake crawl around for 20-30 minutes before I then steer the snake back into its cage. One I get the front third in the cage, the rest goes easy....no sense in crippling yourself to lift a big snake! Maybe you can sweet talk your husband in getting a bit more involved. Good luck, Rob

I would love to see some examples of the large enclosures you guys use for your biggest snakes. I am normally very picky about my habitats looking like a mini rainforest, but I was wondering if a 200 lbs snake would simple destroy all of my hard work. I guess what I am asking is, does it work better to go with a minimalistic approach once the snake becomes larger?
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Bel
1:1:1 Green Iguanas
Numerous Great Danes, Cats and Horses
the_elysian_fields_twh@yahoo.com

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should . . ."

If I did this right, this will take you to a link on this forum showing a picture of our burm's new exhibit (you will also see a few shots of other herp exhibit). Here are the details:

Cage made by: Habitat Systems (the creme de la creme of herp cages)
Dimensions: 12' (a shade under) x 4' wide x 3' high
Other options: custom ventilation system, pro product mist system and pro product thermostatically controlled radiant heat panel, 5.0 full spectrum bulbs for cage lighting, natural rock work on both ends (mostly for aesthetics but she has used it to rub against during shedding), aspen bedding (we are experimenting with different substrates...needs to be functional but healthy for the snake, one viewing side is one piece thick tempered glass and the other side has sliding glass doors for keeper access.
Temps: the area directly under the heat panel ranges from 92-96 deg F. while the cool end dips no lower than 78-82 deg F. Ambient humidity levels are kept at around 75-80% (winter)...our summer humidity levels will be slightly higher.
Feeding: Our 18' burm gets two 10-12 lb rabbits per month and we vitamin supplement once a month. Our other burms get appropriately sized rodents.

If I didn't attach the pics properly, email me and I will forward some on to you.

Hope this helps. Rob
Big Bertha at the Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm

Hey, Rob, you have a very nice place there! I talked to my husband, whose name also happens to be Rob, last night again about the burm. This time I showed him pictures, and he freaked out! Apparently he thought when I warned him that, "they get very big," that I meant 6-7 feet. He assumed I just wanted an enormous cage so the snake could roam around in it. HELP ME! How do I convince my husband that these big snakes are not as vicious and horrible as he thinks they are?! I may end up with mean tempered, non-handlable GTP before it is all said and done instead of my big beautiful burm
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Bel
1:1:1 Green Iguanas
Numerous Great Danes, Cats and Horses
the_elysian_fields_twh@yahoo.com

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should . . ."

If worked and handled with as hatchlings MOST burms will become wonderfully docile animals (one of my all time favorites). You can grow with the burm and you will know this animal's many subtle personalities. I have never known a nice burm to turn the tables (unless you make a stupid feeding error) on its keeper. As long as you practice responsible husbandry and management protocols you won't have any problems (and I would happy to assist with giving you our procedures). If your husband wants to talk to me personally, I'd be happy to do so (my office number is 847-615-4388). But in the end, if he is still hesitant in being involved with this "commitment" a GTP is certainly an awesome option (I have several and all three are as docile as any burm I have owned). There are many other wonderful options when it comes to pythons: olive pythons (one of my favorites), various carpets, gtp's, borneos/bloods just to name a few. Good luck. Rob

Just by my husband reading your last post and by you actually offering to let him call you (and you may be getting a call), he decided he would open up his mind a little more. I think he will eventually come around It would be so wonderful to have someone like you who actually lived near us, but this is truly the next best thing!
Thank You!
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Bel
1:1:1 Green Iguanas
Numerous Great Danes, Cats and Horses
the_elysian_fields_twh@yahoo.com

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should . . ."