Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Until I obtained my C.B. deremensis and veild male 3 years ago, I had priviously(I had not kept chameleons for a few years) used only waterbowls.

When they were young, starting at 2 months old, I would put in their cage a shallow plastic bowl, with plastic plants in it so they could go in and out of the bowl. I would drip water onto the plastic plant. After a few eeks, they'd just get a bowl, no plants, with water dripping in. Eventually, every time I watered them, I'd just put in a bowl of water, they'd go up to it and drink for a little while. I'd pull it out, clean it, and put it in the next time I gave them water. I only watered my adults 2-3 times a week, as they ate quite a bit of plants, and most of their water came from that.

I used top have a difficult time keeping a drip system clean, as the water would get everything wet. I did still lightly spray them, and never had any shedding issues.

Worked very well, actually.

Didn't work well for our pardalis, though. He would only drink from a bowl when we put an areator in it, an only when he was REALLY thirsty. We had to use the drip into a bowl system, which is how I raised my deremensis, caus ethey don';t seem to drink unless they get wet for a minute or so...

I would recomend a bowl for smaller cages, but not the normal way.

Just use a bowl to catch the driping water. In small cages, especially quarantine or temp cages, simply dripping water into a bowl is a great and easy way to water the chameleons. It'll work for all of them, and you don;t have to worry about the mess.

I prefer for my cages to avoid bowls. The reason is because I water my plants with the chameleons water. I have to move the dripper every day to make sure I water all of them...

Water bowls are only bad if they are left in all the time, or if the chameleon can drown.

A nice variation is to put a bucket on the bottom(or a large area bowl) and use an IV to drip all day long, onto leaves of plants, and catch it in the bucket... Hmmmm....I forgot about that, I need to go find some IV bags.

I'm not promoting bowls, just bringing up that I used to use them, and not even to start anything...really

E

That's very interesting...maybe I should have asked the question...
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Chris Vanderwees
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the problem isn't the waterbowl. It's the fact that most people will just leave it in the cage, where it'll get slimy, nasty, crapped in(they have great aim), etc. Plus, most chameleons would RATER drink from dripping water, which helps with the humidity as well.

I just feel a need to say something every once in a while to make light of some general "rules."

For example,
I Know people that have housed their chameleons in 20 gallon tupperware containers with excellent success and long lived animals--no, it's not something I would reccomend, at ALL, but the reasons it DOES work are important to understand.

HOW does this work, and a 20 gallon(or for that matter a 55 gallon) tank NOT work(in general)????

Transparency. Glass is see-through, chameleons don't recognize it, and try to get through it.

Plastic is translucent, chameleons can see it, so they don't bother trying to pass through it. Most of the time(especially with small animals and females), the translucent plastic provides the same stimuli as a shaded bush or dense foliage. This makes them "think" or feel safe, hidden, and yet not enclosed, as light is still getting through.

Keeping this in mind, we can incorperate such dense areas in enclosures for chameleons, enabling them to retreat to these areas to de-stress. We can also provide open areas for chameleons who WANT to be seen-like male calyptratus and pardalis.

I won't use those containers for long term keeping,but I raise young in them until they are sub adults. I have had much more stress free chameleons when they are started off in plastic cages than those in screen cages or glass tanks. In screen cages, I have always had to put in lots of plants, making it hard to see them. With plastic, you can get away with using less actual cover, because the cage acts as cover itself, enabling you to have better access and monitoring of the babies/young.

But remember, I am not saying, in general, "you can keep a chameleon in a plastic tub, with no UVB, and a bowl of water."

E

I really like the way you addressed this. You stated your own experiences and information that runs contrary to popular belief.
Yet you did it in a way that was not abrasive, nor were you 'cramming controversial information down our throats' (not saying ANYONE, including cv768, is doing this- this is how others seem to have taken what he has been saying).
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

Well, if you took part in internet discussions during the dawn of the internet, it would have been different.

Not only was I learning things, but so was everyone else. So everyone "knew" what the "right way" to do thngs was.

When I tried to explain things back then that were contrary to popular knowledge---like that veilds will actually benifit from eating plants--I would do so in a more abrasive manner. It's notbecause that's what I was trying to do, but because I was pretty young, and I didn't realize how I was coming across on theinternet.

Most of the time people sound so nasty and abrasive and NERVEY on the internet, and they might not even MEAN to be that way.
It's just a cold, emotionless, impersonaly method of communication, and most people don't know how to express themselves in such a manner without appearing harsh. To further worsen things, most people read things online as if they were having a face-to-face conversation. This leads to them gettng upset or taking something the wrong way. CAPS FOR INSTANCE. I use them for accent, to substitute for boldface or italics, but it's taken to be "YELLING!" at someone, and people get defensive.

I think all the years of writing and reading the boring, cold and emotionless scientific papers in school have helped me communicate better online.

Just a few years ago, back in 96-98, when I had started posting on AOL's chameleon message board with Steve Davidson, Don Wells and others, I was often "looked down upon" because of my "unpopular" ideas. I wasn't trying to get people to DO these things, I was just spreading information. Then about3 years ago, I mentioned this stuff again, as well as other things I have learned either through person l experience or that of peopl I know on Kingsnake--which I had just "discovered". Man did I get flak.

I mentioned the experiences of a friend of mine, with WC animals.
He had several WC pardalis,and they were not responding well to parasite treatments. So, as an experiment, he kept one female "as is," with no treatments. She was well fed, and hydrated, and lived for years--over a year longer than those that were treated. these had bad subcutaceous worms, and the surgery was pretty rough on them, so it's not too surprising.
You see, the common practice of dealing with these worms isn't very effective. They usually make a tiny cut, and pull out the worms, one by one. Pete found out, in doing necroscopies, that for every visible nematode, there were about 5 tiny ones. In MOST pardalis with subcutes, he found about 20 worms total, under the skin, resistant to oral treatments. This meant that surgury or ivermectin was the only way to kill them. Ivomec killed the chameleons when there were subcutes, and smallincisions often left MOST of the worms, requireing multiple treatments. SO his method of surgery involved knocking the chamelon out, and opening the entire flap of skin up--enough so he could SEE in the thing. it seemed pretty drastic, but it worked better than the other method for him.

Well, I thought that that would be interesting to everyone. Instead, because of him leaving the one female untreated,they said he should be arrested for cruelty to animals, and infected with ascaris.

So, needless to say, I have been careful how I word my messages, to avoid that kind of stuff.

And yet, another day of boredom and coffee at work--I apologize for the rant.

E

Dawn of the internet???? Come on Eric, you're nowhere NEAR that old if you were listening to Culture Club in high school. Yes, there was an internet around for DECADES before the dark days of TRS 80's and phone couplers....
Moving along- you illustrate perfectly what I was driving at. You had some very good information to share, but this information was falling on deaf ears because of the method of delivery ofthe information.
I was reading cv768's (sorry Chris, don't mean to pick on you) post, about how he didn't mean to be controversial, just wanted to share some information. His statements in this post were pretty much in line with what you where describing. I geniuninely felt bad for the guy. Here he was, trying to share some information and getting bashed for it.
You're right though Eric. In this sterile, emotionless environment, whe really have to be careful how we word our posts. Which is why I don't post too much.
Here's hoping I didn't offend anyone by this post !
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

I was being a bit sarcastic when I referred to the early 90's as the dawn of the internet. I was referring to the time when the internet was becoming an everyday, every-home, tool.

And the reason I remember culture club was because my aunt claire used to love boy George, and as a little kid( I was born in 78), I though he was funny, cause he dressed like a girl.

Of course I know when the internet "started" Al gore invented it.
hehe

E

Eric,

OMGoodness......
I was on the "internet" when you were born..!!!

Waaaaaaaay back then, there were the BBC chats - and yes, people hard a hard time communicating through the cold, typed characters on the screen. Over the years, chat interfaces improved and evolved - and the neccessity of smiley faces and other such icons were put into play for this very reason. Folks started abreiviating with inititals like *LOL* and *ROTF* just to inject some emotion into the posts.

While it is still widely considered to be yelling when using CAPS, I still use it to make a point of emphasis - much like you.

Whereas our email clients have evolved to allow for bold; italics; underlining; different font faces; colors; etc - these message boards are still a bit "flat"

It is definately an acquired SKILL to communicate in this venue without seeming abrasive or pompous. You have managed nicely.

"We've come a long way, Baby"
*LOL*

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I have one WC male Nosey Be that I have had for 3 years. Before I knew better I bought him a waterfall. Well, he loves that stupid thing. Every time I have tried to take it away from him he starts going downhill and will not drink from a dripper, spraying, mister, or anything else I have tried.
Since I built his cage and it is huge, 7 feet tall, 3 feet wide and 3 feet deep and has shelves way up near the top. I was able to place this waterfall on the highest shelf with no convinient perch above it so Salvador has never pooped in the water. He just goes over to the branch next to it and reaches over to drink from the trickle of water. It is a bother to clean but Sal did fertilize 30 eggs for me as a Christmas gift so he is worth it.
There are lots of methods that are not the best way to do it but can work for certain chams if they are monitored closely and extra care is taken to make sure they are not causing harm to the animal. Salvador has been drinking this way for about three years so I can't see changing it for him at this point.

Here you are folks.... proof that a chameleon will drink from standing water (of course there is an air stone in the glass for surface movement of the water)

Enjoy.........

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Since we moved, it's been too cold to keep all my chameleons outside as long as we did when we lived in San Diego. We've been dripping water for our chams while we sun them, but that doesn't work on days when we can't put them outside.
I've known about the airstone in the bowl trick, but I completely forgot about it. I'll borrow an airpump from our fish and set up something tonight.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

Hi Victor,

Yeah... this one got started with the glass when water was dripped and the glass caught the drips. The chameleon was attracted to the movement of the splashing.

Movement of the water reminds them that it is there.
The obvious thing is to change the water often - for sanitary reasons, of course.

Sometimes this "training" can come in handy. Especially if a pet owner will be away for the day and cannot mist or drip them.
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I am going to try that out. If it works maybe I can take a vacation this year!LOL
Sonia

Sonia,

Glad this gave you an idea.

Wish this could work for us....
Anybody know where I can by 3 gross of airstones and 5,000 feet of air tubing real cheap????? LOLOLOL

Hey... a new use for my hubby's compressor!!!!!!

Take care,
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Hi folks,

We need to clarify something -

This is not our chameleon in the posted photo. We received this photo through a chameleon group on Yahoo. It was sent out to all the list members as an attachment. That was last summer.

Then this discussion came up and I remembered that photo. I had to go looking for it - but found it on a disc, and added some text. I couldn't recall if it was a deremensis or fischers - but knew it was one or the other. I posted it simply to illustrate that a cham will drink from standing water.

Last week, I was cruising the KS albums, and saw that same photo in another album. Much to my surprise, it was the owner of that chameleon. However, it still didn't have a name attached.

A few days ago, the photo owner discovered we had used the photo. They have since added their name to their copy. The photo belongs to DPF Chameleons.

We did not mean to ruffle feathers... so we will be deleting that picture from our KS album. If you see a red x instead of the pic and need to see the photo again - go to user "fitches" in the albums.

Sorry for the confusion.
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Actually I did get suckered into responding to the earlier post asking about water bowls. My answer was sometimes it works. Some chams learn to drink out of catch basins or plant pot saucers. If so, and the water is clean, great. Many chams never even try it and we all know how individual they can be about how they prefer to drink. I suspect some chams who are healthy and hydrated and have good body reserves will hold out and wait longer for "real" sprayed water than those who are suffering from dehydration stress (but how long is too long...that neither the cham or its keeper may know). Chams who need higher humidity may not be able to wait very long and start searching for moisture of any type. They may find the bowl and learn to drink from it. An experienced keeper who knows his chams well may have the luxury of trying alternative methods for water, for supplementation, for feeding, etc. as they can recognize problems earlier than a less experienced keeper can. When a forum gives advice to new keepers it must err on the conservative side and give well supported advice (and by this I mean things done by the vast majority of keepers whose animals have survived for long periods). If the new keeper eventually moves on to experimentation that is their choice, and if the results are honestly shared we all benefit.

I had a wc verrucosus who routinely licked water out of my hand. As long as he was sprayed first and started swallowing I could have gotten him to drink out of almost anything. Would I try to get all my cham species to do this? No. Either shyness or other behaviors made it too difficult, stressful, or unnecessary. It was just a neat quirk of this particular animal. It is one item I write on a mental Post It note about that species.