Reptile & Amphibian Forums

(please note: some of the statements in the post below are general and sweeping - this is just for the sake of brevity (I know there are always exceptions))

We all know how a fifteen year old young adult thinks. We've all been there (most of us I'm guessing, though some of us may still be on our way...). When I was about fifteen I too wanted a burm. Instead I got a cornsnake - and it was one of the best pets I've ever owned. It wasn't until quite a few years later that I actually decided I was ready for a burm. I have to admit that I'm surprised that I had the presence of mind back then to make that good decision to wait before I got a burm (I was, and to some degree I still am, not one wise to the ways of self restraint and/or patience). Given the mind-set of most fifteen year olds, it seems to me that regardless of what we say, if the kid wants one, the kid's going to get one.

On this forum I very much especially watch for posts from people like Rob C. because he seems to be very well experienced with keeping snakes, burmese in particular (as far as it relates to this forum). Even after years of keeping snakes I appreciate gaining any knowledge I can, and this is a decent place to find some - like I said, especially from posts by the more experienced visitors to this forum. It would be well advised to anyone (i.e., 15 year old children) to pay good attention to the wealth of information available here. Even better would be to give serious thought and consideration to the information and experience offered here. Unfortunately, getting a kid to give serious consideration to the long term pro's and con's of anything is difficult, to say the least.

I guess I have nothing more to express but my dissappointment that there are always going to be people out there who aren't ready or able to keep large constrictors. This in turn is going to perpetuate the suffering of animals (i.e., poorly maintained burms suffering from RI, burns, improper housing/husbandry, etc). That suffering will in turn generate more fuel for the fires of the anti-(snake, large constrictor, reptiles in general) people.

I feel like something should be done, but I have no idea what that could be. Education is a good start, but that's only going to work for people who are willing to learn.

Thanks for reading,
- Mark

I have to whole heartedly agree with you. I originally gave the kid(Burmking) the advice he requested but after reading some of his other posts he is in no way ready to take on the responsibilities of a large constrictor of any kind. If he is still scared of getting bit by a Ball Python so much that he resorts to pinning the snake and handling it by the head then what is he going to do with a 10' burm. Once again kids will do what they want and he probably will end up with a burm, I just hope he has the necassary resources to provide for it properly and the time and patience that is required to develope that bond that can only be developed through proper handling and husbandry techniques. I have often thought that in some ways an age law would not be a bad thing for the large constrictors(retics, Indian family, scrubs, and anacondas) but once we allow them that law you know they won't stop so it is kind of a losing battle. Todd

I don't think that this issue should be over age but maturity level instead. I'm only 16 and I have a 10 burm that I got from a 30 year old that couldn't properly care for her and didn't have the time to spend with her anymore. I got my first snakes when I was 13 I got a central american boa from a local pet store and then a few months later I got a Columbian red tail from a breeder. When I first went into the pet store I got my first snake at I hadn't made up my mind what I wanted but when I set my eyes on an albino burmese baby I was just blown away, it was one of the most beautiful snakes I had ever seen, the pet store workers couldn't really tell that much about them so when I got home I got on the internet and started looking up info myself. When I learned all about them including their huge size I knew there was no way at that point I could properly care for one. But when I got Princess, the burm I have now, I knew it was meant to be. She hadn't been handled much when I first got her and her previous owner told me she was a little on the aggressive side, which didn't deter me cuz I knew I could give her the perfect home, unlike the one she was in then. I am always cautious when I handle any of my snakes but the first time I picked her up I wasn't sure what to expect. I gave about a week to settle down fed her and then waited a few days to give her time to digest her food before I handled her. She was a little testy at first but after a while she calmed down and now she is a sweetheart. I do have a very supportive family, my mom is the one who asked me if wanted Princess, cuz she knew how much I loved burms and she told me I felt that I was mature enough I could take care of her. I NEVER handle her by myself, thats my number one rule with her cuz there is no way of knowing just what could happen and she weighs more than I do and could easily over power me if she wanted to. She is absolutely thriving with me and I'm in the process of building her a huge enclosure that I know shes gonna love. Sorry for such the long post but just wanted to share my point of view cuz I feel that at 16 I'm mature enough to have a large snake but there are some adults that I feel aren't mature enough or don't have the proper time to dedicate to one.
Katy

You are right, maturity is key....but maturity is a PREREQUISITE to owning a burm (or any large constrictor)...yes, age doesn't matter. What does matter, however, is that at a young age, most young adults are not at a stage in their life to take on the responsibility to take on a burm. You can't take the snake to college, you shouldn't keep a large snake in a house with a family who may not share your passion nor have the expertise, and, believe me, I know many young people who are exceptionally responsible but that is the exception rather than the norm. There are physical issues and many, many more. But I commend you on your ability to take good care of your burm; hopefully other young folks will follow your lead.

I'm writing this in the spirit of contributing and participating in this thread-
I teach English in college and have taught English in high school. In my 1101 class, I have many dual enrollment students: juniors and seniors in high school, taking college level classes toward a college degree. This semester I have a 15 yr. old student and half of my 1101 class is 16 or 17. I am also the mom of a 16 yr. old son and an 18 yr. old daughter. There is no single category we can place teens. I say this as a person who has a policy of not selling to minors and a history of siding with Rob Carmichael on age and ownership of large constrictors. Personal experience has taught me that I can't honestly maintain one view on this any longer. I've known too many young people who can give excellent care to large constrictors and show a dedication that will put many adults to shame. And conversely I personally know adults who've gotten in over their heads, who've been dishonsest in their dealings, etc. In short, there are all kinds below and above the 18 year mark, which is only a legal distinction anyway. Rather than singling out minors we should ask questions of stability and family support. We should ask if they have planned out a budget for an adult cage and food, have taken emergencies into consideration and so on. No one can see into the future. We can't say with any certainty that as adults who own their homes, have decent jobs, good health, and supportive families, we won't be hit by circumstances that will drastically alter that in the wink of an eye. And what is really wrong with a 15 year old who can adequately raise a Burmese for three years and then sell him to go to college or into the military? Don't we accept that as a normal course for adults who get into "projects" and then move on to other "projects?" Don't we constantly see adult Burms being sold because their adult owners are "finished" with them? Look at the classified ads. Adults are constantly thrown curve balls, just as teens are. Ideally we should purchase an animal to keep for life- but I can't honestly see many ideals working out on the practical level. I need look no further than my own life, despite our best plans and intentions, stuff happens. Does it happen more often to teens than to adults? NO. For every negative point one can give about a teen and large snake ownership, one can probably be made for adults. Our hobby is populated with mature and immature, stabile and unstable, planners and nonplanners, the rich and the poor. Using guidelines other than age would be more helpful to everyone. Frankly, had I sought help on a forum when I was 15 and I was told not to do it because I was too young, I would have gotten a Burmese anyway and stopped going to that forum. We need to stop looking at ideals and start looking at the practical situation at hand. Age doesn't determine anything other than how old we are.
Does this mean I will sell to a minor? Nope. But as alwasy I will happily speak with the parents of a minor. Just my 2 cents.
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Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles
GiantFeeders

You know I agree 100% with you. I do think that there are more important aspects of owning large constrictors other than age. However, by reading this individuals posts and responses to others posts, i have come to the conclusion that he is not ready, responsible enough, or have enough proper experience to own a large constrictor. He needs to find some one near him that will teach him what he needs to know and help him hone his skills before he delves into this. Unfortunately, he already got the burm and that is why I am continueing to try and give him advice that he needs. Todd

I think the specific 15 yr. old in question is more likely than not, a troll. I should have posted to a new thread since I was speaking generally and not specifically to this situation. I agree with you on the specifics of this situation wholeheartedly. Something is not right with this and, imo, it's because it is not a sincere post, only one to incite discord.
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Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles
GiantFeeders

Marcia, those are EXCELLENT points. One that really rings out is one of family support. I know of several young people who keep large constrictors but do so with 100% family support and involvement. They are all actively involved in the hobby and spend a lot of time and energy learning everything there is to know about the responsible care of large constrictors. Unfortunately, as you know, this is certainly not the norm which is too bad. If my parents didn't give me this kind of encouragement as a young child, I may not be doing what I am doing...and that would be a shame because I think I have the best job in the world and herpetology runs deep in my blood (and family as my twin bro is also a herpetologist and doing some amazing things at the college that he teaches at).

My daughters want to be herpetologists (or teachers) and they have their own menagerie of critters...but I would NEVER let them own a snake/herp that could potentially kill them. Instead, they are learning the ropes by shadowing me at our wildlife center and by the time they are 15, they will have mastered responsible care of these magnificent animals.

BTW.....someone mentioned that you sell rabbits....I need to talk to you! Rob

A upportive family is essential. there's no getting around that for someone living at home with parents and there is no getting aruond it for adults either. Mu children don't share my fascnation with animals or we'd be herping in our expansive backyard all the time As for rabbits, I will e-mail you off list to avoid any TOS violations I think I may say that my website has a free rabbit link for local rabbit sources to help people find rabbits without paying for shipping. I think there are 14 states represented right now and one Canadian province.
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Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles
GiantFeeders

n/p
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Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles
GiantFeeders

N/p