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I give up. I have to be cursed or something. Just checked my male about 3 hours ago, and he was fine. I got back from the gym and looked in his cage and mouth was pushing on the ground, so I open his rubbermaid and his neck is stiff , his pupils are tiny and his body is basically motionless he gave a little wiggle. He seemed like he was trying to deficate or something. The digi was reading 87 hot 80 cool side and he was in the middle of the cage. Humidity 81%, I checked the min and max and there was only a variance a few degrees cooler. I've heard very bad things about the all hours vet here. I think hes gone already but if not a car ride would do him in right now. He seemed totally healthy, wtf did I do wrong?!?! The female is in an identical cage with the exact same conditions and shes perfectly fine. I feel like the worst herper ever. And I think im banishing myself from the boards, I can't give anyone advice if this is what happens to my short tails.
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

Hey Jordan,
From what I can gather there doesn't seem much in your described parameters at all, that would suggest to me that there is any thing wrong with what you've doing maintenance wise. That is strange behaviour, but one that is probably related to something either impacting his esophagus and or air way. In the worse case scenerio there could have been some thing underlying that went unoticed and would under normal circumstances.

The only other thing that I could think of that would cause an animal to behave like that, would be, a sudden and prolonged spike in temperature in the cage. ??? Please let us know what his condition is soon. I really hope that he recovers from what ever it is. I am at a lose here.
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Sometimes on your way to your dream, you get lost and find a better way!

Angel, Thanks for trying, he's definately gone tho. After the initial check of the situation I was afraid to touch him, so I watched him for about 10 minutes and he didn't move, and didn't look like he was breathing. So I finally picked him up and he was completely limp. I just checked him and the cage throughly. There was a small amount of matter that looked like urates with a tiny bit of bone matter, and his airway looks like it was clear. His rectum area on the tail is still open. He deficated yesterday and when I went to handle him today he acted like he was trying to def on me, and I just figured he was musking. The only thing I could figure was that he had more deficate that was stuck and he got extremely stressed very quickly...but after feeling his tail I don't feel anything. My temp guage has max/min figures so you can check them and theres nothing off the chart, just a variance of a few degree's. I'm completely at a loss.... just worried about the female right now and completely devistated.
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

Yikes!! That is terrible. Does your vet do snake autopsies? It may be worth it to find out why something so sudden and unexpected happened. If it was some freak thing it may help you sleep at night too knowing that your other snakes are not in danger and that you did not do anything wrong. Sorry for your loss, I would be in tears. Take care.

Ahh Jordan, I am so sorry to hear that bro, that really stinks, shoot!! The only other thing that I can think of is that he might have died of some kind of "toxic shock syndrome". Kind of a reaction to something; perhaps a septicemia gone undetected, but that would have to be ruled out by a vet. Again so sorry man. Wish I had one to give you to make up for that. Take care, and please get a post-mortem on it, if you have the cash.
-Angel
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Sometimes on your way to your dream, you get lost and find a better way!

Thanks angel, All I can figure is stress? I dont know why tho. The rectal thing has me at a loss as well. If it was stress tho that confuses me too cause I handled him for about ten minutes alot earlier today and he was real defensive as usual but nothing out of the ordinary. I'm really totally lost on this one. As for my vet, he's the only reptile vet in my area, and when I visited him I knew more about the problem than he could tell me, I really just went to get some shots, in fact he gave me some wrong housing info. So I very serously doubt he could give me a post mortem that is with any effort..and probably charge me alot more than its worth. I'm just completely at a loss right now. I was so distrought after the last two, and so excited and hopeful when I got these. Guess I'll email the breeder and see if he has any insight, but I doubt it. I'm just really confused and worried about the female now, I don't know what to do.
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

Usually animals are sent out for a necropsy, it is not done by the vet in question. The report is then mailed to you with the results. It is pretty expensive though.
Was your blood eating and acting normal prior to this? Was there any blood expelled from the mouth or vent area?

He was a recent arrival, I had only had him for about three days I guess. Checked him 3 hours prior to noticing this and he seemed absolutely fine. No blood in the mouth or anything appearing to block the airway.
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

Was it wild caught? Contact the person that sold it to you, see if they will do something for you. For that snake to have died within 3 days it most likely had been sick some time before it was sold to you. Did your blood look as if it had not eaten for quite some time? Did it seem to have equilibrium problems when you first recieved it?

No it was perfectly healthy, nice and fat. I really dont think it was sick. I know i was eating cause it deficated. Not the fault of the person that sold it to me, I'm clueless....
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

That is weird, the only other thing that I can think of is some kind of toxin that it maybe came in contact with. My vet had heard some reports about certain mite control products being toxic.

SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT IT. I THINK I REMEMBER ROBYN TALKING ABOUT A SIMULAR TYPE OF THING A WHILE AGO. IN WHAT APEARED TO BE A SNAKE CHOKING ON A PILE OF BEDDING OR JUST A MOUTH FULL, AND HAVE PAST AWAY. I WOULD ASK HIM ABOUT IT BECAUSE I DONT THINK A VET CAN DO ANYTHING FOR IT. AGAIN IM SORRY ABOUT YOUR LOSE.

Jordan,

I don't know what to say except that I'm incredibly sorry to hear about this . . . I know how terrible and confused you must feel. One thing I can say is that I don't think this is your fault. Your temps, humidity, etc., sound fine, and I doubt that the snake was overstressed. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps Mr. Anaconda is right; looking at the bedding that the breeder had them on, maybe some of it got stuck somewhere in the snake's respiratory or GI tract. This seems unlikely, however, as you said the airway seemed clear and the animal defecated the day before.

I did have something similar to this happen to a pair of white frogs awhile back. They were fine in the morning, and when i came home from work they were both dead in their tank . . . The breeder said that the only thing he could think of was some sort of airborn virus -- as Angel said, "toxic shock syndrome."

I wouldn't worry too much about the female, as this seems like some sort of tragic freak accident -- however, it would probably be worthwhile to have her checked out by a vet, and possibly have a stool analysis done if you are worried. Again, I am incredibly sorry to hear about this and hope dearly that everything turns out all right with your female.

Take care,
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A. Fox

Thanks Fox, all I can think is the bedding. I only kept it in there the first day cause the humidity was way too high. Just wanted to make them feel at home. The female seems completely fine tho, shes in my lap now and even getting a little frisky. I'll definately keep a close eye on her and look into a stool sample.
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

what the f&#^, I would be demanding my money back from who sold it to you and I know who did.I almost bought them.They should work out something with you as a different company sent me a new one no questions asked, only he was dead at delivery.I still think they would refund your money for that one snake, give that a try.Whats done is done,its obvious you didn't do anything wrong.I'm sorry with your luck your having I'd be grieving and just giving up probably too, but I know I'd be on that phone complaining.Hang in there don't give up yet, it wasn't your wrong doing. Later, EThan

Ethan,

Thanks, I sent him an email this morning. Just said I wasn't expecting anything from him or blaming him and explained the situation. He said he didn't have anymore right now, but would glady replace him next season. The solution seems totally fair and I really don't think there is any wrong doing on his part and admire him for stepping forward anyways. On a side note I'm thinking about taking the female to the vet on Monday just in case. My only throw back is that I have checked her out and there is nothing out of the ordinary. I assume all they could really do is a stool sample, but I dont feel any present. So should I just wait for her to deficate and then bring the stool in?
-Jordan
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

Thats good of them to replace him.As for the vet I guess it wouldn't hurt to get a stool sample and take it in, I'm not sure if what happen to the last snake will be found that way, but you never know, maybe they ate a mad mouse.Keep us informed. Later, Ethan

n/p
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Rob