This is a follow up to DK and the gila pair. please read the entire thread. I will post my responce here, as it not only a responce to DK, but also to Sam and other following the thread.
Here it is;
"Now that you feel Gilas may pair up and shinglebacks are known to do pair up as well. May I include our tortosies, I took Daniel and showed him a pair about five years ago, they are still there and still in a pair. When daniel saw them, in was late april, i just saw them again in Nov. and again in Dec. of this year. That is a single example of many.
OK now that we have finally got that far, Please remember, I do not care if you think of it like I do, I merely want you to observe that its happens.
I have seen many of our rattlesnakes, and kingsnakes do the exact same thing, for years and years, Whatever you want to call what shinglebacks do, is about what I have seen these do. But the way, a friend in queensland reported to me that Land mullets,egernia major(i believe) does this as well.
Today on varanus.net, I will post pics of five different pair I found together in nature. While I have to admit, I do not live in Oz so i cannot verify if all actually stayed together for many many months. But I have gone to the same places and found pairs thru-out all the different seasons. In one particular instance out west, My friend found a old abandoned cattle trough, under this we found a large pair of red ackies. Twentytwo months later, I went back with another group of people and found the same pair there. (you can make of that what you will)
With the photos of the five fair, four of those pair are obviously pairs from seeing the pics. They were all viewed in the field as pairs.
While i do have many more pics of pairs in nature, It would take some searching to find them. And if you disagree with these five, what good would another ten be.
The point of this is, you can now see, that from the gilas, to the shinglebacks to geckos, to agamas to the snakes, eventually to the monitors, I have seen the very same pairing. I have also seen that in captivity. There is a string of evidence to follow.
Whether you or I call it social or pairing or whatever, its something and its something other then non-social. ITs also something other then convience. Unless its convient to be social. Because I found it easily repeatable. Its not rare, we could all question how common it is. But thats not the point. I believe i mentions before, i believe about 10 to 15% of the breeding adults do this.
I am sure, you can find shinglebacks singly, as I have done so. In addition, it is documented that they pair up for life. Whatever you want to call this condition, is what I have seen with many reptiles including monitors.
I agree, its bloody hard to see in lacies or any monitor that is as aware as lacies. But, I have seen it with them as well. There is one major problem with that, and that is, you must first know where it happens, and go there to see it, not walk around and see it. I have not been able to see pairs in that way either.
About finding reptiles, you should ask daniel about this, or anyother person who has been in the field with me. I do not look for the monitors or reptiles, not at all. I look for evidence of what they do. Then I find the monitors doing it. In fact, I consider myself very poor at spotting reptiles. I do have many stories to verify this.
To lighten it up a bit, once i was investigating a tree, as I was standing there searching the tree for signs, my son yelled at me. He said, dad, look behind you, DADDDDDD, look right behind you. I turned around and looked, I saw nothing. He then yelled, look down. So i did. There within a meter of me was a very large robust male V.p.rubidus. Good thing he has eyes. i could have sat on the dang thing.
Now for the whine with the cheese. I never cared if any of you believe or our convinced, I do not believe debate should settle a problem with something tangible. In that type of discussion, its best to see for yourself. All I am responsible for, is you make you aware. The rest is your problem. The fact that folks in the scientific comunity, fight this stuff tooth and claw, is totally beyond me. Also the fact that you make it about personalities is totally beyond me. And Please, do not blame me, this information is the same as i offered in the start of this discussion. All you had to do is think and ask the right questions. That I refuse to lead you around by the nose, does not make me a liar or a demogoggle or whatever Sam called me. For not leading you by the nose, I apologise. For turning the tables on you and exposing your experience is not rude or out of line in any debate. The rest is your fault for attacking me and not asking questions. Remember, I never cared to convince you of anything, I only hoped you would open your eyes. I do realize, that is entirely up to you."
For the rest of you, what monitors do to succeed in captivity may or may not, relate to what they actually do in nature. But you must ask, Do you want them to succeed, be healty, do life events, etc, or try to copy something there is very little understanding of. For me the question is simple, I will do what benefits my captives the most. If that means they do better in pairs, then I will do that. If that means feeding them mice instead of snails, then I will do that too. If it means giving them hotspots that others and sometime I, think are stupid hot, then I will do that as well. If any of this relates to nature, that is fine too, but not a requirement.
You see, most of us here, keep monitors for fun, for joy and if successful, for the sense of accomplishment. Some of us, even love them as cherished pets or as if they were our children, all of that is fine. Some even hope to see in our captive pets, the wildness and freedom of nature. All of these reasons are valid and admired.
To me, the thought that they automatically change 100% because we put them in various types of enclosures, is so wrong, but then like you, I am entitled to my opinions. Thanks for being patient.
Lastly for Sam, never in a million years, will words outweight evidence. If I see wild monitors or captive monitors do something different then what you or science says, then you simply and cleanly lose. If anyone or me, posts pictures of monitors doing something, again I will value that more then anything you or science says, for that I apologise. FR
