Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What would cause mouse pups to fade? I have one tank that produces pups, but they don't survive past weaning. As soon as they become hoppers they just start breathing heavy and getting lethargic and fade away. The parents were born in August. They produced 2 litters at full volume and now just 1 or 2 at a time and the pups always die by weaning age. Is it time to scrap the parents or is it something that I'm feeding them. I have another tank whom Dad is the Brother to the females in fading tank and the Mom's are the Sister/Mom of the males. And that tank is going strong with 12 pups a litter every time. And their offspring produce healthy litters....that is until an unfortunate accident with one of my cats.....

I also have another tank (with the same bloodlines as the 'fading tank') whom the females ganged up on the poor male, chewed his ears off to points (like a pitbull) and bit off one his his balls. For some reason they have no babies either...

My ratio of females to males are 5-6 to 1. They are in 10 gal tanks with pine shaving changed every 3 days and exercise wheels. I do make my own food which is various bulk feed, seeds and nuts and cat food mixed in quart bags and frozen until used.

I have 4 large Oscars (fish) and 1 young Rosy Boa I am trying to keep happy and would like have a steady supply of mousiebabies, rather than 2 good months worth of litters and then nothing....which is now...

If the "fading" babies come from litters of one to two, it could be that they just don't get the needed nutrition, though I dn't know what would make them live to weaning age. I would "off" that entire colony as it would appear to be doing poorly. The mouse who had his "balls" chewed is most likely infertile.

As far as food, I have found that cat food is too high in protein for mice and causes problems. I use dogfood with 21% protein and 7 - 10% fat. CAt food is usually in the 30% range for protein and that is just too much. I would switch to dogfood to see if that helps the mice any. Also, if your fading group started having litters in August, then they are reaching the end of their productive lives in any case. Generally, especially when dealing with a small number of mouse colonies, I would suggest keeping babies from the second or at most third litter to raise up to replace the parent mice. By the time they are up to producing the parent mice are beginning to fall behind in production and you can replace them.
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~Sasheena

>>As far as food, I have found that cat food is too high in protein for mice and causes problems. I use dogfood with 21% protein and 7 - 10% fat. CAt food is usually in the 30% range for protein and that is just too much. I would switch to dogfood to see if that helps the mice any.

I feed catfood for high production groups....but not all the time, just for a few days here and there when there are a ton of pups or all hugely pregnant. All the time is too much but heck, I give my rats cooked meats sometimes too.
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Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

>>What would cause mouse pups to fade?

I would suspect a virus in the group. Eventually, if you don't freeze them off, you will likely see all the adults wither away too. That said it could just be worn out mice. But I breed mine for several months and do okay.

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>>I also have another tank (with the same bloodlines as the 'fading tank') whom the females ganged up on the poor male, chewed his ears off to points (like a pitbull) and bit off one his his balls. For some reason they have no babies either...

Try a new male...a big brute and go by whether they attack him or not. If they attack every single one I would freeze them all. I would either try introducing a just weaned male that they may mother or a monster brute. Either way change the cage, wash stuff and dump them in after you put in the boy. They may accept him a bit better.
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>>My ratio of females to males are 5-6 to 1. They are in 10 gal tanks with pine shaving changed every 3 days and exercise wheels. I do make my own food which is various bulk feed, seeds and nuts and cat food mixed in quart bags and frozen until used.

Cat food all the time is likely too high a protein. I use it to supplement high producers for short periods, otherwise go for the lower % dog food.
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Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

Thanks,
I haven't mixed up my current batch of food yet. I will try the dog food. Any recc. of brands?

I also placed 4 weanling males in the 2 non-productive tanks (2 each) and we'll see what happens. Normally I'd just give them all to my neighbor's Argentine Boa upstairs but they were a "rescue" from Animal control last Aug. and I feel guilty doing so. I am currently raising up all I can from the good tank to start again. It just takes sooo long to get things up and going again. Especially when the damn cat keeps discovering ways of getting the lids off and wiping out my good tanks.

To the person who suggested that a virus was causing the fading. What kind to you think would do that?

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>>To the person who suggested that a virus was causing the fading. What kind to you think would do that?

I have little idea but there are several viral infections specific to rats and mice that can infect a colony. If you are having universal troubles either your husbandry is very far off....which I don't think as likely as an infection wearing them down and out. I have had colonies suddenly go to nothing for reproduction and have skinny, wasting babies. Then the moms start to go. I have learned to just freeze them off and go again. You will waste a lot of time fiddling with saving what you can. I would sterilize it all and reset them with young mice.
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Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

it kinda sounds like what's happening. The only symptom that I don't have is the "chattering" ...outside of 'normal' talk. Just seems strange that it was only happening to those 2 tanks and no other....though, the circumstances that I got them from was pretty rough.... They were in a shipment of about 400 that a LPS had ordered the end of last August as Hoppers but somehow they were delayed in Seattle for a few days during a heat wave and most died. When they finally arrived in Anchorage the LPS refused them at the airport and chose to cash in on the insurance. So my GF who is also an officer at Animal Control picked them up and out of 400 only 28 survived. She gave them to me and it's the surviving females that I'm having problems with now. Only one male is left and he is the Father of my 'good' tank.

My 2 problem males and 1/2 the females went to the Boa upstairs last night.

Looks like I'm starting over at the moment. Just too bad that it takes soo long for them to grow to breeding age.