Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just had my first experience with silkworms and goliath horned worms. It was an okay experience. I bought both cultures at the IRBA show december 13, 2003 for 5 bucks each. The silkworms munched down on the chow like crazy. I almost ran out of chow and every single silkworm grew an inch or longer. The goliath horned worms didn't do so well. I had 20 horned worms total. About 3 died when they were less than 1/2 an inch (VERY SMALL). About 7 grew to 1 inch or a little more. Only 2 grew to 3 inches and the rest (8) died at 1 inch or less. I was wondering if the chow was poisened somehow or if anyone has had a problem like this? I have 2 in the cocoon stage right now. I need a link to get the information on the moths, eggs, incubation, etc... I forgot the website that I was previously at. Also, I heard that if the hawkmoths, or hummingbird moths as I like to call them, are released into the wild they will do great damamge to crops or the ecosystem or some crap. I live in Southern California, (San Diego), and have caught Hawkmoths before just flying around are lantana (stinkweed flowers). Tell me what you all think. I'd like to hear the replys.

Hard to say without hearing more.
Could be temp, could be husbandry. What temp did you keep them in and how often did you clean out the frass?
You're also mentioning the Dec 13 IRBA show (at Pomona, I'm assuming). How long after this did you have the die off?
I'm including mulberry farms' website link. They have a care and instruction sheet there for goliath worms and silkworms.
mulberry farms website

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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

As far as the ecological implications go, there is little cause for concern. The hornworm sold for herps is the Tobacco or Tomato hornworm (Manduca sexta/M. quinquemaculata - respectively) and they eat only plants in the Solanaceae family which includes potato, tomato, tobacco, petunia, etc. They are naturally occurring in Calif. (see link below). They are more of a problem for home gardeners b/c the larvae eat tomato plants, but that is simply a fact of nature. The parasitic wasps keep them in check. The adult feeds on nectar and is a necessary pollinator, so feel free to give them their freedom . Btw, the adults don't live for more than 5-7 days.

lele the Lepidopterist

Sphinx Moth resource

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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

As far as they're concerned, it seems any insect keeping by anyone except for science, research, and education should be banned. I know the reasons, they just make such a big deal about everything.
Also applies to exotic roaches. You must have a permit to keep roaches in California, but only science, research or education applicants will be issued a permit.
Ca Dept of Ag won't usually go after anyone for keeping bugs as long as you keep a low profile. But they're not sanctioning bug keeping either. Kind of keeping 'buggers' (hehe ) in the gray.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

Victor - was that you who I had this chat with way back? About the whole banning/permit, etc.? Believe me, I am the LAST person to recommend allowing something out into nature willy-nilly (one of my more scientific terms)! I am actively involved with the invasive species issues (plants and insects) here in New England and tend to err on the side of caution (obsessive caution!). When it comes to ag...well, some of theirs is erring with that same caution. The difference between us and them is that they are concerned with agricultural crops whereas I (and my cohorts) am concernd with our natural ecosystems. There is a certain amount or partnering b/t the two, but not much as ag has had it own, very deleterious, impact on our natural systems...but that's another subject altogether!

Don't recall..do you rear insects other than as feeders? I know we have made the "bug" conections in several threads, just refresh my memory...
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

I understand Dep of Ag's position. Just they take it too far, just like most other California beurocracies.
Take roaches- why list them all as agricultural pests? I don't ever recall of plagues of hissing cockroaches attacking Madagascar's agricultural industry. It's just silly.
Yes, I keep certain other 'bugs' besides just feeders. But you won't hardly ever hear me mention them. As fascinating as I find them, I won't usually talk about them.
The same thing with ferrets in CA. They're illegal in Ca, yet there are literally thousands of people who keep ferrets. Despite this, there has been NO ferret caused catastrophy to Ca's ecology. Another law in place that was supposed to protect the state's resources, but instead makes criminals (okay not really..) out of pet owners.
I'm not saying there should be a 'free-for-all' atmosphere, allowing all potentially dangerous/threatening species in. But there has to be a balance.
Sorry, off my soapbox.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

I kept the horned worms at a constant 70 degrees, same with the silkworms. The silkworms were fine but the goliaths were not. I cleaned out the little cages/tubes every day however one would die every 2 days after the first week I had them (I got them December 13th). About the end of December/start of January all of them started dying no matter what size they were, even the tiniest ones. I still have half of the chow left. Most of the chow was eaten by 2 horned worms. They were the only worms that grew bigger than 1 inch and are currently in cocoon stage. Oh yeah, how long are the horned worms in the cocoon stage?

What's the website that sells horned worm and silkworm chow? I forgot.

Ive posted before:
Silkworms EAT A HECK OF A WHOLE LOT!

I got 200 silkworms and by the time they coccooned, they had eaten 3 bags of 'chow' and i had to throw out what was left of a 4th batch of chow because they had coccooned and it would go uneaten.

My chameleon didnt like them either. But with any animal you can never tell what they'll love or not. People say "every lizzard loves silkworms" but its not true.

If you have access to mulberry leaves off a tree then you can save a bundle. Otherwise cost is a big factor in raising silkworms.

Roaches are going to be the best feeder for my lizzards i think.