Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone,
it has been quite a while since I have been on here, I have had my hands full lately with my baby beardies. about 3 months ago, I had a clutch of babies hatch, all seemed well, eating great, doing everything that a normal, healthy baby dragon does, but as soon as they turned a month old....disaster struck! They started dying off one by one, it was extremely hard for me to deal with . Needless to say, it was very depressing for me as a "dragon mommy" to lose my precious babies. I lost all but one. The vets were stumped as to the cause. The babies would eat, drink, poop, and be normal until the end. Before I went to bed, they would be fine and when I would wake, one or 2 would be dead! This played out until all but one was lost, and I was helpless to do anything to save them, a very crushing feeling! I finally came to the conclusion that it was a genetic problem passed on by the mom so I decided to NEVER breed her again. Now it seems that I was completely wrong about the problem being genetic! I have a group of babies from parents that are 100% unrelated to the parents of the hatchlings mentioned earlier that up to this point have been healthy, happy babies. About 3 days ago I lost the 1st one, yesterday I lost 3 more and 2 more are on their way out as I type. Again, this didn't start happening until they turned 4 weeks old. Yet again the vet can't help nor have I been able to find one that can tell me what is going on. I have frozen 3 of the dead babies and am trying to get ahold of a University that can perform a necropsy. Here are the symptoms in case anyone can help me pin point this horrible illness: appearance of dehydration (eyes sunken in)(I soak the babies 2 times daily plus mist them) ,runny stool usually clumped to the vent area, bruising on the stomach or chest area. I will not be breeding anymore dragons until I am 100% sure what is causing this. If anyone has ever lost babies in a similer way or if you think you might know what this illness is, PLEASE let me know. I would love to be able to save the remaining 7 babies that I have! Please, everyone say a prayer for the remaining babies (if your not religious, cross your fingers for them!) Thanks, Christy

I think you should email Cheri .... I bet ya she could point you in the right direction to getting this problem "named".
I hate to jump to conclusions here, but my guess would be adenovirus in your collection.
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

>>I think you should email Cheri .... I bet ya she could point you in the right direction to getting this problem "named".
>>I hate to jump to conclusions here, but my guess would be adenovirus in your collection.
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>>Lisa
>>www.beginnersbasics.com
>>
>>
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Rob

n/p
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www.classylizard.com

>>Hi everyone,
>>it has been quite a while since I have been on here, I have had my hands full lately with my baby beardies. about 3 months ago, I had a clutch of babies hatch, all seemed well, eating great, doing everything that a normal, healthy baby dragon does, but as soon as they turned a month old....disaster struck! They started dying off one by one, it was extremely hard for me to deal with . Needless to say, it was very depressing for me as a "dragon mommy" to lose my precious babies. I lost all but one. The vets were stumped as to the cause. The babies would eat, drink, poop, and be normal until the end. Before I went to bed, they would be fine and when I would wake, one or 2 would be dead! This played out until all but one was lost, and I was helpless to do anything to save them, a very crushing feeling! I finally came to the conclusion that it was a genetic problem passed on by the mom so I decided to NEVER breed her again. Now it seems that I was completely wrong about the problem being genetic! I have a group of babies from parents that are 100% unrelated to the parents of the hatchlings mentioned earlier that up to this point have been healthy, happy babies. About 3 days ago I lost the 1st one, yesterday I lost 3 more and 2 more are on their way out as I type. Again, this didn't start happening until they turned 4 weeks old. Yet again the vet can't help nor have I been able to find one that can tell me what is going on. I have frozen 3 of the dead babies and am trying to get ahold of a University that can perform a necropsy. Here are the symptoms in case anyone can help me pin point this horrible illness: appearance of dehydration (eyes sunken in)(I soak the babies 2 times daily plus mist them) ,runny stool usually clumped to the vent area, bruising on the stomach or chest area. I will not be breeding anymore dragons until I am 100% sure what is causing this. If anyone has ever lost babies in a similer way or if you think you might know what this illness is, PLEASE let me know. I would love to be able to save the remaining 7 babies that I have! Please, everyone say a prayer for the remaining babies (if your not religious, cross your fingers for them!) Thanks, Christy
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

another forum, so not on as much. GAWD, Don't ya just love someone with enough knowledge to be dangerous to others and decent breeders!!

I got an email about this so popped on.... btw, the pic of the kid and the dragon is just tooooo cute! I loved that!
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www.reptilerooms.com

I had a fairly similar experience and I nelieve it was adenovirus. Though I have no solid proof I'm 98% sure that is what it was. There is only one place I know of that will be able to tell you for sure and that is Dr Dan Wentz. Go to reptilerooms.com and read about the adenovirus. CheriS has his report posted to her site. Also there are other posts of people with similar symtpoms you can read.

Mine started showing around the 4-5 week range I believe and they died off just as you stated. Sunken eyes, darkening around the throat and head area, rolling onto thier back kinda like having siezures, stunted growth, falling while attempting to climb and would stop eating about 2 or 3 days before dieing. The only sure way to find out if they have it is to have a fecal done by Dr Wentz. If they do it is incurable and in my opinion the best thing to do is put them down. All of them. Including the parents. This disease is awfull and a horrific death for the beardies especially adults as their bodies are more resiliant and they last longer in the suffering stages. It spreads through touch by infected things such as your hands before washing after holding an infected animal, climbing furniture, bathing them in the same water or sink even if water has been changed and sink not disinfected with bleach or another virus killing agent. It spreads VERY EASY!! That is why I belive it best to put them down. No risk of infecting others and it keeps them from haveing a horrible, painfull death. You should consider if Adeno is found asking Dr. Wentz if he would like you to send him the infected animals for study. This virus is so new there is little known about it and they could help him in his research.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I know what you are going through as I just went through it myself jsut a few short months ago. Don't make the mistake I did and give up and just put the animals down and not have a necropsy or fecal done by QUALIFIED persons. Thsi virus is SO HARD to detect. I could have possibly contributed to Dr wentzs' research but was to overwhelmed with everything that was happening to follow sound advice and think straight. It is very depressing I know and it is so easy to fall victim to that depression and let it take over. I hope this helps some!

Robert Wood

Great post! I remember you going through that a while back. I couldn't post any "personal" experience with adenovirus since I thankfully haven't had any.

They said they had frozen 3 of the babies, maybe these will be suitable for testing... I am unsure of the specific requirements.

Either way.....To the original person who posted .... Get in touch with Cheri.
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

In general frozen specimins are no good for pathological tests. For a vet to be able to perform an in depth necropsy the animal must be refrigerated not frozen. Freezing breaks all the cells down and messes things up. I do not know if this is the case with the determination of adeno but I do know as a general rule if bringing in an animal for a necropsy do not freeze it.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

His number is 314-524-0707 Since you obviously still have the mother of the first clutch that passed away, the best thing to do is send Dr Wentz a fecal sample from her. He will be able to go through the details with you I'm sure. Necropsy for adeno findings I believe Cheri stated are more expensive and take longer. The feacl test is 100% accurate and less expensive. I think she said around $70.

Robert Wood

and it does detect more than just adenovirus, there are two other virus showing up lately also, and those if you can get the babies over the outbreak are not like adeno and incurable. The fecal that Dr Wentz has developed will run about $75. and he can send you the prep infomation and the University to send it to and how to send it.

With bodies, you have to have a vet prep sections as that is what most lab will accept and not the whole body. It would run about $400 to do a full necropsy or $40 a sections.

NOw, all this aside, it does take a few weeks in in that time it will not help the dragons you have that may have been exposed to something, but it will tell you if you have something going on in your colony.

Adeno incubation is about 10 days to 2 weeks, so these babies may have hatched clear and it is being picked up from another dragon in your colony that shows no symptoms.

You shold first have a living one checked that is in the same clutch and see what that says, then, if there is something there, start with testing the mother, and eventually the others til you know for sure who is the carriers of it.

I am so sorry you and them are going through this, losing babies to any virus is so emotionally toiling on an owner.... I seen grown tough men crying daily was the little ones go down hill and it devastate some so bad, they stopped breeding or even raising dragons.. hang in there, we will help all we can with info or just knowing someone is there with you.

IF you want to email me I have also help you with the adults and the locations they came from.... with the likelyhood of pinpointing where it entered your colony. Almost all adeno cases do trace back to one of four breeders eventually, so that is sometimes used to spot the most likely one in a colony that is the carrier.
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www.reptilerooms.com

adenolink
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Rob

hey,

just to point out the obvious........although u probably already know...i would seperate all your beardies to stop any more spread...also sanatize everything....everything...including bathing tubs, food dishes, anything that comes in contact with the beardies...including hands......i know this is all obvious stuff but just makin sure.....

also i find it extremely weird but i'm takin AP Biology now and just today while studying viruses i read sumtin bout adeno...its a upper respritory infection that is very contageous....i don't know too much more but i will ask tommorow, maybe my teacher knows more.....

anyways sorry that u have to go through all this and i hope your beardies make it out all right.

carbonatom13@aol.com if u have any general adeno questions..maybe i'll know more come tommorow

carbonatom13

Some it is nothing more than a common cold (one type of the common cold in humans is caused by an adenovirus) and goes away.

In other species it can invade the liver or other vital organs.

In bearded dragons it can affect the any organ including the brain, intestines and liver most. And once they have it, it does not go away, they continue to shed viral cells (as far as we know, ones contagious were still shedding cells after 4 years) so can infect others.

Passes on human hands or clothes from dragon to dragon, byt the type adeno that beardies can get, can not pass to humans.... there is no information yet if it can pass to other reptiles like paramyzo virus and cornona virus can.
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www.reptilerooms.com